M1 Garand Operating Rod question

roybme

What is the difference between a "cut operating rod" and an "uncut operating rod?" Is there a history here? Will both work with any M1?

Laredo Lefty

UNcut on top....... Cut on bottom. The cut was made to prevent rods from cracking in the area due to stress. They will work on any Garand.

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roybme

Oh, of course--a the "relief" cut. How stupid of me. I was thinking of something like re-welded demill cuts. Thanks.

quote:Originally posted by Laredo Lefty
UNcut on top....... Cut on bottom. The cut was made to prevent rods from cracking in the area due to stress. They will work on any Garand.

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nmyers

".....stress DUE TO FIRING RIFLE GRENADES". If you fire standard USGI M2 Ball, you will never have a problem.

Neal

EDIT: Changes were made over several years, starting in 1944. There were several changes to both the gas cylinder lock AND the gas cylinder lock screw during WW2; however, this still caused problems in semi-auto fire as the amount of gas released by the poppet was not precise. The cut op rod was adopted AFTER WW2, & the combination was successful in solving all problems.

wpage

Cant imagine a problem. If you are really concerned contact DCM.

ofitg

quote:Originally posted by nmyers
".....stress DUE TO FIRING RIFLE GRENADES". If you fire standard USGI M2 Ball, you will never have a problem.

Neal


I thought that the gas system was shut off when the grenade launcher was attached....???

Laredo Lefty

Unlike the M-14, the Garand does not have a gas shut-off.

givette

The gas plug at the end of the gas cylinder on M1's have a small 'poppet' valve, the function of which is to vent gas pressure from the system. Could that be what the [prior poster] meant by 'gas system shut off' on M1's?

The valve will come in contact with a stud attached to the launcher, and be forced open when the grenade launcher is attached. This does not happen with earlier (M1903 type) launchers. So, the question remains:

Could both the poppet valve and the relief cut have been found to be inadequate by themselves in stress relief?

Could troops afield using original pre-war type launchers (that didn't have the ability to open the relief valve) have been the reason for the relief cut?

My take: Poppet valve and the relief cut were employed as a 'total package of stress relief' for use when firing grenades. Best, Joe

mark christian

The right angle joint on the operating rod where the cylinder attaches to the handle is prone to very high levels of stress. Such a joint is in fact very weak, can crack and cause the handle to dismount, fly back and strike the shooter. The solution was to field modify the operating rods adding a small relief cut to the joint and reliving the stress. During post war production this cut was OEM and rifles going through rebuild and over haul had new rods fitted and the older un cut rods discarded.
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Firing rifle grenades has no effect on the operating rod because once the poppet value is opened by the stud on the grenade launcher virtually all gas flow to the rifle's action is cut off. In early launchers this is to the point of the rifle no longer being capable to firing semi automatically.
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ofitg

quote:Originally posted by givette
The gas plug at the end of the gas cylinder on M1's have a small 'poppet' valve, the function of which is to vent gas pressure from the system. Could that be what the [prior poster] meant by 'gas system shut off' on M1's?

Yes, I was thinking about the M7 launcher's pin which opens the valve

The valve will come in contact with a stud attached to the launcher, and be forced open when the grenade launcher is attached. This does not happen with earlier (M1903 type) launchers. So, the question remains:

Could both the poppet valve and the relief cut have been found to be inadequate by themselves in stress relief?

Could troops afield using original pre-war type launchers (that didn't have the ability to open the relief valve) have been the reason for the relief cut?

My take: Poppet valve and the relief cut were employed as a 'total package of stress relief' for use when firing grenades. Best, Joe

Looking at photos of the M1 launcher used on '03 Springfields, I don't see how it could be clamped around the Garand's barrel.... perhaps there were other launchers I don't know about, which would fit on both rifles?

mark christian

WWI 1903s used what was known as the V-B Grenade Launcher, which was totally withdrawn from service in around 1930. The later version of the launcher for the 1903 series was known as teh M1 and used a clamp with a wing nut to secure it. It is in no way interchangeable with the M1 Rifles M7 Grenade launcher, although both rifles use the same M15 launcher sight. You will often see period photos of one or two dog-faces carrying an M1903 series Springfield well into late WWII, and long after the Springfield was declared a substitute standard rifle and should have been withdrawn from service. The reason for this is because the 1903 rifle was often used as a dedicated launching platform for rifle grenades due to it's ability to fire Ball ammo with the launcher attached, something that the Garand was not able to do with the M7 launcher. It was not until the middle of 1945 with the introduction of the M7A1 launcher that the Garand was able to fire ball ammo semi automatically with the launcher attached. It is not believed that any of the M7A1 launchers were issued in time to see service during WWII. The relief cut is there for a totally different reason than the presence of a grenade launcher and the two have nothing at all to do with one another.