Investment Grade Firearms

jdyer

Anyone have information about acquiring investment grade firearms for collecting for future sale at retirement. In other words, I'm looking to diversity my retirement portfolio into investment grade firearms and I don't know where to start. I would liike firearms that appreciate at a reasonable rate above the market. Any help?

duckhunter

Don't we all. After 50 years it is still just a guess. But the "stuff" that you enjoy because you will own it a long time. Next, who are you going to get to buy your guns?? We don't seem to have a "young" group wanting to collect old guns.

I WOULD RATHER BE DUCK HUNTING.

GuvamintCheese

To buy guns for an investment you need to buy low! Much easier said then done. How much time are you willing to put into hunting down good buys.?.How much are you going to spend? You can go out and buy someones Winchester collection for a couple million, Hopefully it goes up when its time to sell...What a great problem to have though!

perry shooter

Hello You bring up an interesting question. First and formost the following is just my opinion. I suggest you buy only guns in the best condition . Buy guns you like. Dont buy guns that are meant to be "collector items" . With that said IMHO the people with the most spendable extra money are usually late 40's to early 60's so buy guns that would have been popular when they were in their late teens and 20's but could not afford at that time in there life. and who will be 40-60 when you think you will want to sell yours.Now for the big kicker . 2 reasons why you should buy something else to collect. There is a smaller and smaller % of people collecting firearms every year. And the big one. With one stroke of the pen GUNS can be outlawed and become worthless. Yes I do collect and guns are a big part of my life and I love the workmanship in good guns just don't view them as an investment thru rose colored glasses."praise the HARD-Ball gun"_

1911a1-fan

quote:And the big one. With one stroke of the pen GUNS can be outlawed and become worthless.

I agree with that one, it is a shame but could happen in the future, and almost every gun I have is an investment, but I do not buy them with that consideration, if anyone could predict what will go up in value please let me know

heavyiron

Hi,

I have been considering a similar option but I am not an expert. Firearms are something I really enjoy and I understand guns better than I do the stock market or my wife. I think picking a stock is almost like gambling, and picking a collectable firearm is much easier if you follow guns and their prices at auctions and at gunshows. All I can offer is my opinion as a general formula as to how to firearms may be acquired for an "investment" collection.

First of all, I have never seen the price of a quality firearm go down in value if the condition of the is firearm is presevered. The higher the quality the higher the value. Therefore, if investing in firearms they must be kept securely to prevent theft (they aren't insured by the FDIC to $100,000 like a bank account) and to prevent deterioration. This requries locked safe volume, more than likely at your home.

Second, I think an investment arm has to be held for a length of time to appreciate in value, especially if Blue Book value or the full retail price is paid. Compare the retail price of Colt Python 10 years ago to what it will fetch today. In some cases, the appreciation can be quite high for given firearms.

Certainly, the better the deal, the more you will be able to leverage your investment: the old adage, buy low, sell high is appropriate. I would think buying a collection would be an excellent way to leverage an investment.

Next, I believe certain firearms will have the ability to appreciate faster than others and picking these out is not as hard as it may sound. For example, if I am not mistaken, I have read that full auto submachine guns appreciated (on average) 100% last year. That is a pretty damn good return for a short term investment even if you subtract the permit fees and taxes, etc. Submachine guns are available for sale and it requires the cash for the weapon itself and the permit and taxes. Since there are only a limited amount of machine guns, demand is high and as a result price is high. Another example might be certain German military WWII firearms. These seem to be in hot demand such as Lugers, G-43 rifles, MP-40s,etc. Even the lowly P-38s have escalated about $100.00 in value in the last year alone. Fine English double rifles and shotguns also can appreciate considerably.

There are risks as well. If BATF would declare an amnesty for full autos, this could in turn, drive this market into a momentary decline. I also believe that not being able to possess an FFL to buy and sell firearms is a disadvantage (although a C&RL is available for collectors). But only being eligible for the C&RL definitely reduces the possibilites to buy low and sell high for cerain firearms.

Since I know there are people on this forum who have already accumulated extensive and valuable collections, what do they say? I, for one, would also like to hear how others have faired and what their advice and expertise is on this subject.

Regards,

Heavyiron


"If I don't see you nomore on this world, I'll meet you on the next one, and don't be late!" - Jimi Hendrix

captkirk3@dslextreme.com

For this kind of information You need to talk to an expert...and the only man that comes to mind is {101AIRBORNE).....This requires his kind of expertise...If He don't give you a reply in a the next few days give me a shout....and I'll try and find Him for you....

Captain Kirk, Tech Staff<P><BR>

Mooseyard

Machine Guns!

"My faith, my country and my family will guide me; nothing more, nothing less" -Gen. Tommy Franks

treedawg

Transferable Machineguns!!!

TD

v35

Fine American doubles, Winchester 21s, Prewar lever guns by Winchester and Marlin, 1st generation SA Colts in excellent condition.
No redos and no junk.

Bert H.

I find myself in complete agreement with v35. Pre-64 manufactured Winchesters will only continue to go up in value as time passes.

Bert H.

Real Men use a SINGLE-SHOT!

bperdue21

i saw some firearms called investment arms. it was confederate states series in a winchester 94. apparently they made 50 for each confederate state with some kind of information about the state engraved into each one. they looked really good, but i don't know if i am going to pay $3400 for a gun i will never shoot. if these are what you are talking about, i think i would pass them up. i doubt their value will increase subatantially enough to use it for investment purposes. i'd find some guns in rare calibers like remington 700's in 350 rem mag and 222 mag. the 721 or 722 i can never remember in .244 remington. springfield sniper 03's, mauser 98 snipers, g-43's, rare barrel type lugers like the artillery issue, ORIGINAL military 1911's, M1 garands, pre-94 HK's. there will always be someone to buy guns.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

nord

If I were to have a crystal ball...

"Things and stuff" will always have value. That means that the .22 that you paid $50.00 for yesterday will always be worth something if in good mechanical condition.

As to appreciation over time, there are factors we must face and deal with...

Will the economy be strong?
Will there be interest?
Will your gun still be legal?
Will you be able to market your collection?

I'd probably advise you not to jump on the first "limited edition" that hits the street. I'd also advise against most modern weapons as it's pretty much a crap shoot as to what will climb in value and what won't.

I would, however, consider the classic shotguns and rifles that are still fairly abundant on the market. I'd caution that you better know what you're doing because the difference between a shooter and a collector-grade gun is vast.

And then there's the antique market. Some would specialize in items like Pennsylvania rifles or Civil War pieces. Both command huge dollars today if they're untouched and correct. Both have appreciated over time, but it's harder and harder to find these items on the market today.

Will they continue to appreciate? I don't know... It's a gamble we all take.

I would advise that one should collect what one likes and appreciates. One should learn all that one can about a particuar subject. Whatever it turns out to be, the satisfaction of being able to touch and hold (and be the caretaker for a time) of those items should be enough for the present. That these items may increase in value over time will be just an added bonus.

My opinion only.

Nord

rhmc24

Some good advice and good thoughts, the best IMHO from V35. To that I would add, try to ID no-so-popular models of name brands of guns such as early Colt double actions. Much lower now than other Colts some of same period. Example is Colt cartridge conversions, now close to same value of Colt percs, but a few years ago conversions were a quarter of the value of the some in original perc. Another category try to ID quality makes of not-so-popular guns. Example is Merwin Hulbert, a few years back not worth much but now bring serious money. Go for big pistols in best condition whatever you buy. Stay away for the exotic stuff.

only winchesters

Hello jdyer: Good morning, that's a tough good question. My first suggestion would be to determine if you want rifles, shotguns, or pistols. Second, settle on a manufactureer, Ie: Winchester, Browning Parker, etc. Third, start looking for as much reference material as possible and read up on makes and models. Some guns don't have to be new in the box, or 99-100% to be collectable and appreciate at a higher rate. Find out what's rare in a specific model, so if you see one, you can pick it up. Example, the Winchester Md 42 .410 pump, Winchester made 6000 Skeet barrels, 1500 Cyl choked barrels, and about 1000 Imp/Cyl choked barrels. Since total production numbers were about 165,000 on the Md 42, any Md 42 with the above choked barrel is on the rare side, if it happens to be a "diamond grade" or Pigeon it's very rare, it doesn't have to be mint to gain value. Then there is the Winchester Md 21, the .410 on the baby frame is rare, but with total production of about 38,000 most Md 21s command a high price now. Then there is allways a Browning Sweet 16, the earlier round knob ones will always be a favoriteto Browning lovers.

Guns with factory engraving will command premium prices, if it's after market engraving, unless it's been done by one of a hand full of people, who are respected in the gun community, you could over pay very easily.

Generally speaking the higher the grade, the more expensive it will be. You could buy 4 or 5 guns for $100,000 or 40 guns for $100,000. Just remember the higher the price, the fewer potential buyers. Example: Not a lot of buyers out there for Md 21 baby frame .410 at $30,000 or so, but a lot of buyers for a Browning Sweet 16 at the $1200-$1600 range. Not that either one wont sell, it just may take longer as the price goes up.

Again, you have to read up on the manufactures, find out what's rare and what's not, learn to spot refinished guns or restored guns from original. I've seen "restored guns" new in the box! Being sold as original! In addition to reading up on the guns, you have to read up on the boxes and paperwork that came with them.

Just here at Gunbroker I've seen a number of dealers that don't know how to tell if a Winchester is original or not. But after looking at the pictures of the gun they post, I can tell it's been refinished. Or the butt stock has been replaced with a later style, or the barrel was cut, after all Winchester never made a Md 12 with a 23 1/2 in barrel! LOL I would like to believe most people are honest and just don't know vs trying to pull a fast one.

Do your homework!! Or you can lose big time!!!!

Regards Dave

cowboy77845

That is good advice. I did it with New Service Colt's. Made a few mistakes. The biggest being not getting them all in the best condition. I doubled my money after 20 yrs. What is that? Less than a 5% annual return? Not good. I think there are better investments than firearms. You buy them because you like them. An investment should provide some income/cash flow while you are waiting for it to appreciate.

sandwarrior

I'm not fond of collectors who want to collect a symbol of freedom while they kill it by collecting them and driving prices up instead of using them as they are meant to be used, like the best model of Corvette that never knew 100 mph around a big sweeping turn. Firearms are meant to be shot and not stuffed into a vault so you can get money later on.

If you want to be a value to freedom and the shooting community find out about the technology of each type and genre of firearm. Learn what it takes to build them. If you want great value, help the artistic shooting community and start building your own custom firearm and have it "artistically" customized to your specs. You will find it won't accelerate in price right now but who knows, some aspiring gun engraver may have his name in lights twenty years from now because you decided to have him put the finishing touches on a great 'working piece of art'.

If you want to plunk money down and have something that will be worth more than what you paid for it buy something that is high value/dollar now. Engraving and custom gunsmithing are two things that are being pushed aside in the shooting world. Engraving more so than gunsmithing. Two very good values when done properly.
If all you want to do is plunk money down I would invest in Merkel, Krieghoff, AH Fox, Blazer, H&H, Purdy, and late model Mausers before Sig bought them. They will be expensive but will gain in money. Among these from time to time you will find various makers of good name to invest in (requires research and inevitably appreciation for...). Also, look into American engravers past and PRESENT, they will be a good value someday for you.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

We have the second amendment so that all the rest are secure....UNK>