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Seller wants signed FFL before he will ship?

BowHunter252BowHunter252 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
edited April 2008 in Ask the Experts
I just bought a rifle on here and the seller wants a signed copy of the FFL he will be shipping to before he will ship the rifle. He says it is ATF policy. I disagree. The FFL can be found on GunBroker's Find A FFL section, so it is not a question of whether he is an FFL or not. My FFL will not send his FFL to non FFL holders... Can someone point me to some laws saying one way or the other please. I haven't been able to find anything other than "you must ship to an FFL holder", no mention that you need a copy of their FFL before you ship.

Thanks
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Comments

  • mbsamsmbsams Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When you bid you agreed to the terms of the auction.
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  • SP45SP45 Member Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had the same problem before I had an FFL. I have also had FFL's refuse delivery when I was not an FFL holder, despite my offering to send a photo copy of my drivers license, pistol permit and police ID. Your FFL holder still has the right to refuse and he probably won't change his mind.
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  • mrbrucemrbruce Member Posts: 3,374
    edited November -1
    You do need to abide by the sellers rules, right or wrong it's his ball game.
    Lots of places will not ship till they have a signed FFL in hand.....
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  • BowHunter252BowHunter252 Member Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only "rules" listed in the auction were "check your own local and state laws. sent to a ffl only. payment by us postal money order."

    Guess I will have to find a different FFL[:(!]
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  • jonkjonk Member Posts: 10,121
    edited November -1
    I would at least want the FFL number to verify on the ATF online checker sight to make sure the FFL was still valid. I admit I strongly prefer having the signed copy in hand though; if your FFL won't send his license to a non-licensee he's only hurting himself.

    The seller though is only covering is own behind and I understand totally why he's doing it.
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  • MooseyardMooseyard Member Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just because someone is listed in GB's FFL section doesn't mean that they no longer need to supply signed copies of their license. It's your dealers right to not send out a copy of his FFL. The ATF doesn't require us to send out FFL's when asked. I also agree with the seller. There is NO WAY I would ship a gun without a signed FFL copy in hand.
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  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The ATF will allow a signed copy or a faxed copy of the FFL. The ATF requires that the shipper send any non antique arms, or muzzle loaders with changable barrels, to a valid FFL. Signed copy, and ATF check is the only for sure way a shipper/seller will not be in violation. A non FFL holder can ship to an FFL, but most FFL's prefer FFL to FFL transfers. I can see your sellers point that he is not going to ship unless he has a copy in hand of the ship to's license.
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  • HandgunHTR52HandgunHTR52 Member Posts: 2,735
    edited November -1
    As far as laws go, the only law is that the seller has to ship to an FFL holder. The seller having a signed copy in hand is not law.

    Here is what I did (as the seller) for the last gun that I shipped. Once the auction was completed, I had the seller send me the contact information for his FFL. I then called his FFL and got the FFL number directly from him and verified that he would accept shipment from a non-FFL holder. I used the ATFs FFL Check (online) and verified that the addresses matched. Then I shipped the gun to the address listed on the ATF site.

    The laws are located on the ATF website (www.ATF.gov) as is the FFL check feature. You may want to call the seller and see if he is willing to do the same as I did.
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  • givettegivette Member Posts: 10,886 ✭
    edited November -1
    Go back to your FFL, ask him to fax a copy of his license to the seller with "file copy-not for use" written across the face of the paper. See if he will comply. Or better yet, ask the dealer for his FFL number, give it to the seller and have the seller do the ATF E-Z check.

    Does the seller say in the auction "I'm not an FFL, make sure your dealer will accept a firearm from a non-FFL"? If not, the auction dispute process at Gunbroker will side with you.

    Best, Joe
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  • HerschelHerschel Member Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't fight the problem. Since your receiving ffl dealer has made up his own rules, as do many others, just find another ffl. As an ffl dealer I do my best to comply strictly with the law and BATFE regulations but don't make up any more on my own.
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  • AZEXAZEX Member Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Man, we've been through this a dozen times....if not 2 dozen.

    ONLY A LICENSEE, has an obligation to possess a faxed, snail mailed or "scanned and emailed" copy of an FFL before shipping to another licensee.

    The receiving FFL is under no obligation to get an FFL copy from the SENDER. The sending FFL can just write his name on the package.

    A NON-Licensee may use FFL EZ check website to verify the validity of a receiving licensee's license, if shipping Interstate.

    A NON-Licensee has no legal obligation to demand a hard copy of that FFLs license, AT ALL. The licensee can send a copy, if he wishes. ATF folks are advising against this, as dummied-up, Pshopped FFL copies have been used to make fraudulent purchases, which the FFL had no idea of and which came as a great shock to them during their next audit.

    If he chooses to "not send" because he doesn't know the rules, fine, there's lots of F'n idiots who own guns and can't read the rules regarding their legal shipment across state lines.

    D.
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