Turnbull refinish

GunBuff

I have a Colt 3rd Gen.SSA that was refinished by Doug Turnbull,dose this drop the value?.

Bert H.

Yes. Any time a collectable firearm has been refinished outside of the factory, the collector value is reduced.

rufe-snow

Refinishing and restoration aren't the same. Joe's gunshop and radiator repair will do a bang up job of refinishing your Colt. It will have zilch collectors value after he gets done with it though.

If Turnbull restored the Colt to factory original condition, it's not going to lose a heck of a lot of it value. Most folks won't even have a clue. My 2?.

glabray

Rufe is correct. Firearms totally restored by Doug Turnbull are in no way reduced in value. In fact, they often increase because there is a certain segment of the collecting world that likes to see the old guns appear as they did originally. I'm talking about a total professional restoration, not a simple refinish which in most cases would reduce the value. The cost of Turnbull's work is $$$$ so there is no way to come our ahead even if the gun does go up in value.

Hawk Carse

Disagree.
There was a recent item in American Rifleman where a very nice Marlin rifle had its super duper pristine original collectible certification revoked when Turnbull "remembered" working on it.
Are you telling me its value did not take an immediate and substantial drop?

kimi

Where collector value is concerned, in terms of collecting "all original" pieces, Bert is correct. However, If one takes a $1000.00 all original piece, and gets a professional restoration like Turnbull is capable of doing, then said firearm might be worth $5000.00 to some people, but it will have lost its collectibility as an all original firearm to the typical firearm collector.

Grasshopper

Both sides are correct,,depends who you are,,,its that simple[:)] nambu

nmyers

3rd gen Colts are relatively recent guns; they are quite common. I would be very surprised if you could get more for a refinished one than for a "mint" one. (And, no one will be fooled because Doug marks all his guns.)

As for classic guns, Doug himself has sold both originals & his restorations of the same gun, & he generally asked (& got) about half for his restorations.

Neal

tsr1965

Both sides are correct from a collector standpoint. The gun looses its value, of which history has imposed on it, as being original. However, Doug Turnbull has taken RESTORATION to the highest level, and he is the MASTER of that art. I have seen non-operational all original 10-20 percent guns he has restored to the factory letter, sell for substantially more than the original would have. I live close to Dougs operation, and have done business with his father(Creek Side Gunshop) in the past, and know Doug also...he puts his heart and soul into it. There is a reason why many of the premier manufacutrers send their special runs to him to be color cases, or rust blued.

EDIT

here is a link to an auction that showcases some of Turnbull's work.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98106301

rhmc24

I have original Colt SAAs, two 7.5", .45 cal dating from 1875 and '82 with exc bores and smooth no-finish exterior, three post 1900
38WCF with about 50% original blue. I have had them so long that I forget the costs. I'm considering having an early one and a later one restored, probably by Turnbull. I have my doubts that spending $5k each is a good dollar investment but certainly would produce beautiful conversation pieces.

I am a restorer of "lock, stock & barrel" types, mostly flints, some wheels and few percs. Many of my projects are highly documented as to provedance, and deserve being brought back from the abuses suffered later in their existence. My clients, dealers and major collectors, want "Restoration" back to where it was last in use in its original condition - never to like new.

Comments?

SP45

The Marllin in question brought over the estimated price at auction when it was evaluated as an origional. Prior to the auction it was identified as an Doug Turnbull restoration. This has changed in the last ten years. Prior to that refinishilng would decrease value. Now the proper restoration of the correct gun will increase value despite the gnashing of teeth of the purists. There are not many 95% or better model 86's or Colt single action 1st gens out there. The ones that are out there are beyond the reach of most people includilng collectors. However finding a ratted out one and paying 3 to 4,000.00 and spending 3 to 4,000.00 for accurate restoration is much more affordable.

Hawk Carse

There was a collector here who had scarce muzzleloaders properly restored. He thought that one done well would have a resale value greater than the rough-original value plus restoration expenses. He must have been right, after he died his widow sold off his collection and has had no financial difficulties. Of course his documentation included contacts who had shown interest in his stuff and a willingness to pay a good price; a policy that would be smart for all collectors.

The first socially acceptable restorations I know of were the DelGrego Parkers. As I recall, Mr DelGrego worked at Remington-Parker and when they quit making the guns, he bought up the spare parts and went into business for himself. But it was a long time before any other restoration was seen in polite company.

I think restorers should inconspicuously but unambiguously and permanently mark their work. There is just too much opportunity for fraud otherwise. A collector once told me that there was no way he could be taken in by a restoration, why just put the piece under a microscope and it would be obvious where markings had been refreshed by engraving and were not the original stampings. Riiight.

I recall reading an article by John Bivens on flintlock restoration. He said that when he "stretched" a barrel back to its original length, he welded the bottom flats with stainless, leaving a bright white line to show what had been done if you took the barrel out of the stock to check.

kimi

quote:Originally posted by nmyers
3rd gen Colts are relatively recent guns; they are quite common. I would be very surprised if you could get more for a refinished one than for a "mint" one. (And, no one will be fooled because Doug marks all his guns.)

As for classic guns, Doug himself has sold both originals & his restorations of the same gun, & he generally asked (& got) about half for his restorations.

Neal


That's the way I judged it, too, where many of his pieces are concerned.

bobski

if it wasnt made by the original colt employee who is now long dead, it will lose value. and if i knew someone was passing my work off as same as original and getting money off it 100 years later, i'd roll over in the grave.
unless doug is using water powered belt driven machinery, with hand tools, by candlelight being paid 1.00 an hour....it isnt the same.

the restored gun loses its historical respect.

just like my old home in the historic district. if i came in and mopped, dusted and repaired an old rotten clapboard, the house is original and the respect of the houses longivity is admired and premium is paid for it due to respect to its design. but if i were to gut the house and put marble top kitchen counters, cable dish and linoleum floors over the oak planks, the house becomes remodeled and the value shoots up to recoop the investment, but the depreciation clock gets reset to zero. same with your gun. its NOT a true 100 years old anymore (so to speak.)

its like restoring king tut back to who he was. youd make scientists cry.

givette

quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
Both sides are correct from a collector standpoint. The gun looses its value, of which history has imposed on it, as being original. However, Doug Turnbull has taken RESTORATION to the highest level, and he is the MASTER of that art. I have seen non-operational all original 10-20 percent guns he has restored to the factory letter, sell for substantially more than the original would have. I live close to Dougs operation, and have done business with his father(Creek Side Gunshop) in the past, and know Doug also...he puts his heart and soul into it. There is a reason why many of the premier manufacutrers send their special runs to him to be color cases, or rust blued.

EDIT

here is a link to an auction that showcases some of Turnbull's work.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98106301


There's the issue (item in blue). If ABC gunmakers, INC wishes to send their guns to Turnbull to have the final-finishing work done prior to retail sale then the gun is factory original. That the finish work was farmed out is incidental. Joe