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S&W model 60 .38 special question
BigCannon
Member Posts: 88 ✭✭
Can anyone tell me if it is ok to shoot +P ammo in a model 60 ss .38 special with a 2" barrel? I was told by the guy I bought this gun from not to shoot +P ammo in it but I would like to know what some of you experts have to say.
Comments
If so, it will say so on the muzzle.
The party line (and what Smith will tell you if you ask) is that you should only fire +P rated ammo in +P rated guns.
Off the record +P ammo isn't *that* much more powerful than standard (its about 10% more pressure), and a few rounds through a late model all steel gun probably won't hurt anything. Supposedly there is no actual difference between the later +P rated guns and the earlier ones.
edit:
As further info the more recent models 60 in .38 are built on the same frame as the 357 magnum version, which has a slightly longer cylinder and a beefed up frame compared to the original model 60. Those newer guns are WAY strong, enough to shoot .38+P all day long.
I don't know which submodel the switchover occured, it, but one of the board Smith-o-philes might know.
edit #2:
Be careful of .38 +P+ if you ever find those. Those are often loaded hotter than .38 +P, and closer to .357 magnum level, and shouldn't be considered safe in non .357 guns.
Also, this isn't exactly the first time on this board the topic of 38+P in non+P rated guns has come up. See here for more discussion and opinions:
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=244385&SearchTerms=38,+P
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=225237&SearchTerms=38,+P
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=263663&SearchTerms=38,+P
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=103718&SearchTerms=38,+P
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=72633&SearchTerms=38,+P
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=103848&SearchTerms=38,+P
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=192438&SearchTerms=38,+P
quote:Originally posted by duckhunter
Call Smith to be sure.
S&W will just say no, don't shoot them.
As above, probably that's what they'll say, since its in their interest to sell you a new gun, and not increase their own liability, but not necessarily.
I've heard second-hand that Smith reps have said off the record that its OK to shoot +P ammo in modern steel framed guns (and your story confirms this again). Again, I've also heard that there is NO difference between the newer +P rated guns and the recent older ones. Same steel, same guns, just the newer ones say "+P" on them.
In fact, supposedly there is no difference in steel between the modern .38s and the .357 guns, and even the frames are similar, meaning you could likely get away with firing rounds a lot hotter than .38+P in most of them. Personally, I'd never try it, and I'm a little reluctant to even mention it, but I have heard of it being done with hot handloads.
Remember, any model gun is tested with "proof" rounds that are significantly more powerful than even +P rounds. Again +P ammo isn't *that* much more powerful than standard, its has about 10% more pressure, and the +P rating was specifically designed so as NOT to blow up modern guns in working order. Since the model 60 came out in the mid 1960s, I'd think pretty much ALL of them are safe for +P ammo.
quote:
I "cornered" a S&W rep once at a gun store and got him to admit there isn't really any safety issue per se to shooting +P in an airweight J frame. His example was that you can load 1000 pounds on a Ford Ranger and might get away with it for awhile but it will wear out the truck really fast.
Let's hope there is no issue with +P rounds, since all of the current production airweight guns are +P rated! Supposedly they DO hold up to constant use of +P ammo:
quote:http://www.snubnose.info/docs/model60-15.htm
{Gun writer] Dick Metcalfe did a 5000 round torture test on a couple of Airweights using +p feed and neither gun suffered any damage or distortion of the frame.
I've heard that Smith has also internally "torture tested" these guns with thousands of rounds of +P ammo, and they hold up.
Remember, the cylinder and barrel of these guns are still made of steel. The only alloy part is the frame, and that doesn't directly take the stress from the cartridge, only the recoil forces.
Now, personally I wouldn't try +P ammo in any of the older/original "airweights" from the '50s. Those early guns didn't have the same quality of alloy in the frame, and they did have problems with frame-stretching from repeated firing stress. +P rounds probably aren't going to make the gun isntantly blow up in your hand, but they would accelerate frame wear to the point where the gun could become unreliable, non-functional, or unsafe (eg shaving lead).