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progressive rifleing

fitzhughfitzhugh Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
edited June 2010 in Ask the Experts
Has anyone ever experimented with progressive or increasing rifleing?I am talking about starting out at zero to minor twist at the chamber and increasing it until at the muzzle. Start at 60 to 1 and end at what ever is needed. I would think that with high vel./ heavy bullit rounds the transition would help to keep the pressures down. Sort of easing the bullit into it as it were.

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    South40South40 Member Posts: 135 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Called "gain twist", and I believe used on Italian Carcano rifles.
    S40
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    Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Colt did it for percussion revolver barrels.
    Harry Pope did it for scheutzen rifle barrels.
    As S40 said, the Italians did it for the Carcano.
    Smith & Wesson does it for the .460 monster magnum.
    Some target rifle barrel makers are using a tiny amount of gain twist, from say 16.25" to 16.0" for a .22 lr to be sure the rifling is "tight" on the bullet.
    Bartlein will make any progression you like, you could probably even get the old Metford design with three different twists over the length of the barrel with fairly sharp transitions.


    The Paradox mentioned below is not really related.
    The rifling in those I have seen does not "develop gradually" it is very distinct for about two inches right at the muzzle with a rather short leade from the main smooth bore. The main advantages of the Paradox were that it weighed a lot less than a fully rifled gun of the same bore and that it would give about improved cylinder patterns with shot. One of the cutest guns I have seen was a Westley Richards 20 bore Faunetta, suitable for medium game.
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    Alan RushingAlan Rushing Member Posts: 9,002 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    fitzhugh ... Welcome to: gunbroker.com

    Know what you are referring to and know that others here are knowledgeable of "progressive rifling", gain twist, etc. I'm not an expert on it, but I'm sure one or more will come on and give you the info you are interested in finding.

    Good seeing you. Good luck to you.
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    beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Gain twist" rifling where the rifling twist gets faster towards the muzzle is an old concept.

    Its used on artillery pieces, as one example.

    As mentioned, it used to be used on old percussion revolvers and a very modern gun to use it is the Smith .460 revolver.

    It doesn't alter the chamber pressures, but the idea of slowly easing the spin of the bullet is correct.

    The idea is that when a fired bullet smacks the rifling, its going to spin. If the bullet is really heavy and hits the rifling hard, not only is the rifling going to spin the bullet, but due to Newtons second law (action/reaction) the bullet is going to spin the rifling!

    The gain twist eases the stress on both the bullet and the gun.

    Without the gain twist (for example) not only would the .460 revolver kick backwards hard on recoil, but the impact of the bullet against the rifling would also tend to twist the gun along the axis of the bore during recoil!
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    11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You might also research the term "paradox". Those were VERY large caliber guns- usually measured in "bore" (gauge), such as 4 bore, etc. They were called Paradox because it began as a smoothbore, and then developed rifling as you moved down the barrel. Used for elephant, rhino, small armored vehicles BEFORE development of the Nitro Express cartridges.
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    oneoldsaponeoldsap Member Posts: 563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The .460 S&W X frame has gain twist rifling
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    Emmett DunhamEmmett Dunham Member Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a Model 700 22-250 Remington rifle with a custom barrel that is gain twist. The barrel was bult here in California, if you are interested in the manufacture name I will dig the rifle out and post it. The company is still in business and building barrels in Arizona, I think they are not in the gain twist barrel business any longer.


    Emmett
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    I.ShuteI.Shute Member Posts: 647
    edited November -1
    The only thing I can add to beantown's post is - when the bullet starts moving the grooves are having parallel sides. When it gets to the end of the barrel the grooves are slightly oblong. I'd like to see a slug shot into water and see what they look like!!

    No, I goofed up here. The grooves in the bullet at the breech are parallel to the sides of the bullet. When they reach the end of the barrel they are wider than they were at the breach. The lands will be narrower.
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    grady mitchellgrady mitchell Member Posts: 139 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    the 20mm vulcan barrel has gain twist as do the carcano rifles
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    fitzhughfitzhugh Member Posts: 7 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the info. I might have one and didn't even know it.
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