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Pricing on Green Mountain Custom Shop .54 Rifle

competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
edited November 2013 in Ask the Experts
I posted this in the Black Powder forum, but that forum gets so few visitors, I figure I should probably ask here if anyone has any ideas about the pricing on one of these:
http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375738639

Am I even in the ballpark starting it at my $550 opening bid?

I know the different positions about doing auctions and "starting at a penny," but I prefer to start my auctions near a price I expect it should sell for. I'm not interested in making this a thread about what is the best way to do a listing -- I'm just interested if anyone has seen what one of these Green Mountain Rifles has sold for in the past.

Thanks, in advance, for any input.
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Comments

  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 6,572 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think you are at least $100 to high for starting. Just my opinion, help build several ML with their barrels.

    My unit which is traditional muzzle loader requires no sabots or copper bullets and in-line or 209 priming. A few years ago they let us use other than round ball. This year they didn't even have a ML season for the first time in 20+ years for some reason.

    Hopefully a watcher will bid.
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
    I think you are at least $100 to high for starting. Just my opinion, help build several ML with their barrels.


    Thanks for the input. Are you just basing your opinion on "what nice black powder rifles sell for" or have you seen that Green Mountain .54 rifle offered for sale before?

    I'm not much into black powder. Normally, if looking for information online about something like this, I can find good information, but I can find virtually nothing about this Green Mountain offering. This is about the extent of it: http://namlhunt.com/54caliber.html -- but nothing discussed about pricing in that article. (Reading that article, I'm wondering if I should have done the listing with "Brush Rifle" in the title? Or am I searching online using the wrong search terms?)

    Two days into the auction, I've got a decent number of watchers (which sometimes can be just curiosity and not any real interest in purchasing). I'll see how it closes in less than a week.

    If anyone has seen one of these sell (or be offered for sale) before, let me know what you recall about pricing.

    Thanks!
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  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    From what I am seeing, you are about $350.00 above the $200.00 selling point I last saw for a Knight M85, in 54 Caliber on the auction side.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Actually, it is the best comparison you will get.

    See, in their day, Knight Rifles, purchased Green Mountain. When Knight went under, I do believe they kept the Green Mountain barrels part of it. There was speculation, that Knight was going to come back. If you look closely at the Green Mountain, you have listed, it is so darn close to the M-85, and/or Disc rifle, that it appears to be almost a direct copy.

    IMHO, the Knight Rifles, were grossly overated, as compared to the Thompson Center line up, especially when the Encore came on board.

    As far as "more exclusive", goes, if you are insinuating collectability because of low numbers made? Then, remember what establishes value, on ANY market, is supply and demand. I can have a one of a kind, and if nobody wants it, it is worthless. One thing to remember in gun collecting, as a general rule, outside of some military collecting like the Garands, 1903-A3, civil war era, etc...there are ONLY two names that top the list in collectability...they are WINCHESTER, and COLT, period.

    Best

    EDIT 2

    quote:EDIT: Actually, "tsr," (as I look into the subject of muzzle loaders a little more) I think a more accurate comparison (even though it is only offered in .50 caliber) is going to be found in Knight's current line-up. Something like this -- it's even made with a Green Mountain barrel -- is closer than the "M-85" (it looks like Knight isn't even using that designation on their current line-up) you're suggesting could be a "best" comparison: http://www.knightrifles.com/Ultra-Lite-Olive-Green-Straight-Western/

    I'm probably "OK" at my starting-bid-point, based on Knight's current offerings -- if one is using Knight muzzle loaders as a comparison.



    Yes, OK...whatever way you want to spin it, KNIGHT OWNS GREEN MOUNTAIN. The Green Mountain gun, is based off a Knight...kinda like a Mossberg 500, and a Maveric 88, by Mossberg...they both are the same, and in comparison to other models, by other manufacturers, suck. That is why Knight Rifles went under to start with...they were like politicians, and did not listen to the folks they were trying to sell goods to, about what they wanted. Folks wanted reliable, without the use of a disc...even CVA delivered on that.

    So, like I said, spin it anyway you want, to toot your horn, but it is still the same...even Ray Charles could see that, and not only is he blind, he is now deceased.

    Best
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    From what I am seeing, you are about $350.00 above the $200.00 selling point I last saw for a Knight M85, in 54 Caliber on the auction side.


    Is the Knight "MK-85" a good comparison to this Green Mountain though? Wouldn't that, in a way, be like comparing a "Ford Mustang" with a "Shelby Mustang"?

    I'm seeing these completed listings for the Knight (most appear to be used rifles): http://www.GunBroker.com/All/Completed/BCI.aspx?Keywords=Knight+85+.54&Timeframe=1

    I appreciate the input -- and I'm sure some shoppers would be making such a comparison asking "What could I get that's similar?" -- but I'm thinking the Green Mountain rifle would be considered something more "exclusive." Am I right in that assessment?




    EDIT: Actually, "tsr," (as I look into the subject of muzzle loaders a little more) I think a more accurate comparison (even though it is only offered in .50 caliber) is going to be found in Knight's current line-up. Something like this -- it's even made with a Green Mountain barrel -- is closer than the "M-85" (it looks like Knight isn't even using that designation on their current line-up) you're suggesting could be a "best" comparison: http://www.knightrifles.com/Ultra-Lite-Olive-Green-Straight-Western/

    I'm probably "OK" at my starting-bid-point, based on Knight's current offerings -- if one is using Knight muzzle loaders as a comparison.


    EDIT: quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    Yes, OK...whatever way you want to spin it, KNIGHT OWNS GREEN MOUNTAIN. The Green Mountain gun, is based off a Knight...kinda like a Mossberg 500, and a Maveric 88, by Mossberg...they both are the same, and in comparison to other models, by other manufacturers, suck. That is why Knight Rifles went under to start with...they were like politicians, and did not listen to the folks they were trying to sell goods to, about what they wanted. Folks wanted reliable, without the use of a disc...even CVA delivered on that.

    So, like I said, spin it anyway you want, to toot your horn, but it is still the same...even Ray Charles could see that, and not only is he blind, he is now deceased.

    I'm not sure why you're using the term "spin" -- this is not a subject I consider myself to have good knowledge on. You were the one who brought up the comparison to Knight rifles, so that is what I was doing.

    I appreciate the input, even though I'm not seeing the comparison you're making. I'll let the auction process work out the details about pricing. If I need to drop my opening bid after a few runs at my current price, that's what I'll do. (I'll keep it and shoot it if it's only worth the $200 you're suggesting.)


    EDIT 2: I'm also not seeing this "ownership" relationship you're talking about between Green Mountain Barrels and Knight Muzzle Loaders. The two don't even link to each others' websites. What time-frame are you talking about on this relationship? (I'm just generally interested in business; my curiosity on this has nothing to do with the listing; you can just PM me any articles/links/information you might have on this you wanted to share it. Thanks, Joe.)
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  • rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Run it through a couple of cycles with the $550 opening bid. If it don't sell, drop it hundred bucks. No deep thinking or rocket science required. Keep on doing that, until it sells.
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  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Green Mont. custom shop .54's sold in 2010 for $399. Just because they made only about 250 guns does not make them collectible.
    I think you are about $200 over on the starting price.
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    Run it through a couple of cycles with the $550 opening bid. If it don't sell, drop it hundred bucks. No deep thinking or rocket science required. Keep on doing that, until it sells.


    That's what I'm thinking.

    Thanks, babun, for the 2010 pricing -- I couldn't find any information on what they sold for originally.
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  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,038 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by competentone
    quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
    Run it through a couple of cycles with the $550 opening bid. If it don't sell, drop it hundred bucks. No deep thinking or rocket science required. Keep on doing that, until it sells.


    That's what I'm thinking.

    Thanks, babun, for the 2010 pricing -- I couldn't find any information on what they sold for originally.






    I will add to this that you appear to have one of the best ones offered. But it may be a hard sell because that stock, while really good, may have only a few people that like that "colorful" style.

    The right buyer will pay good money for it...hope you find him.[8D]
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  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 13,008 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice job Joe[^]
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had a good number of watchers by the end of the auction -- and someone took the opening bid. I guess it was priced about right!

    Thanks to everyone for their input!
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