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Charles Daly O/U choke i.d.
orca44mag
Member Posts: 690 ✭✭✭✭
I have a Charles Daly/B.C. Miroku 20 ga. o/u.
The top barrel is marked ++ & bottom barrel is marked +-.
S/n of firearm id S208xxx, rklt.
THanks
The top barrel is marked ++ & bottom barrel is marked +-.
S/n of firearm id S208xxx, rklt.
THanks
Comments
B. C. MIROKU OVER/UNDER SHOTGUNS
also sold under the name, CHARLES DALY made in JAPAN
4 DIFFERENT STYLE TOP LEVER SPRINGS ARE USED, HOWEVER IN THE ONLY OLD CATALOG WE
FOUND, IT IS APPARENTLY FOR THE TYPE 2. THEY ARE USING THE SAME PART NUMBER FOR BOTH TYPE 1 & TYPE 2, BUT DIFFERENTIATE ONLY OLD STYLE, OR NEW STYLE & GAUGE. THEN LATER WHEN THE 3rd & 4th STYLE CAME ALONG, IF THERE WAS AN ILLUSTRATED PARTS LISTING, NO ONE HAS FOUND IT. THE 4th STYLE USED COIL SPRINGS FOR THE MAINSPRING, EJECTOR HAMMERS & THE TOP LEVER SPRINGS. THESE COIL SPRINGS PROVED QUITE A BIT MORE RELIABLE.
FOR OUR PURPOSES, UNTIL WE FIND MORE INFORMATION, WE WILL USE THEIR KNOWN PART NUMBERS ,
AS #2224 FOLLOWED BY THE FOLLOWED BY THE GAUGE & THEN THE TYPE NUMBER
AS #2224-12-T1, #2224 -12-T2, #2224 -12-T3, #2224-20-T1, ETC.
To go to Chas Daly/ Miroku exploded drawings page CLICK HERE
The drawings below are full size
TOP LEVER SPRING
TYPE 1 #2224-12-T1 SERIAL NUMBERS
? - 306,367 12ga Hunter/Venture Grade
? - 216,522 12ga Field Grade
? - 540,083 12ga Superior Grade
? - 355,645 20ga Field Grade
? - 213,352 20ga Superior Grade
This top lever spring lays parallel to & on top of the lower tang, above & in front of the trigger & is pinned into the lower tang by a cross-pin. we have not been able to find the starting serial numbers are on the above models, and suspect they may have actually been integrated with Miroku's existing numbers
The 20 ga. type 1 top lever spring is basically the came but shorter OAL & not as tall, top bottom, #2224-20-T1
TOP LEVER SPRING
TYPE 2 #2224-12-T2 SERIAL NUMBERS
NO Venture Grade used this style
216,523 - 371,702 12ga Field Grade
540,084 - 543,618 12ga Superior Grade
NO 20ga used this style
This top lever spring lays on the RH side of the receiver (inside the stock) & the anchor hole uses the cross-pin hole in the receiver at the RH hammer area
TOP LEVER SPRING
TYPE 3 #2224-12-T3 SERIAL NUMBERS
306,368 -to coil 12ga Venture Grade
371,703 -to coil 12ga Field Grade
543,619 -to coil 12ga Superior Grade (close to last Approx 610,000 7-1976)
355,646 -to coil 20ga Field Grade
213,353 -to coil 20ga Superior Grade
20, 28ga, & 410 Type 3 is .075 shorter overall & narrower than 12 ga, & #2224-20-T3
This top lever spring lays on top of the locking block, in front of the top lever shaft, & goes crosswise with the receiver. The short tail rests on the top lever shaft, while the longer notched tail snaps behind the RH receiver machining for the RH hammer.
TOP LEVER SPRING
TYPE 4 #???? SERIAL NUMBERS
#????
The information we can come up with is that possibly the last 2 years of production, 1975 & 1976, used coil type mainsprings, ejector hammer springs & the top lever spring. We also have seen guns that had broken top levers that were retrofitted with later top lever springs, or even retrofitted with complete coil springs.
MAINSPRING TYPE 1/2/3
#2211-12 12ga
LH, TOP -- LONG END IS FLAT MAINSPRING TYPE 1/2/ 3
#2212-12 12ga
RH, BOTTOM -- LONG END IS ROUNDED
All 20, 28, 410 Type 1/2/3 Mainsprings use the same spring& are .050 shorter than 12ga to the "Vee",
numbers are #2211-20 & #2212-20 The 12ga will not fit
FIRING PINS
#2217-O/S & #2217-N/S SERIAL NUMBERS for New/Style
313,188 & above 12ga Venture Grade
392,868 & above 12ga Field Grade
556,093 & above 12ga Superior Grade
330,741 & above 20ga Venture Grade
361,093 & above 20ga Field Grade
522,322 & above 20ga Superior Grade
350,026 & above 12ga Single Barrel Trap 300
The our above parts are made off dimensions from original parts, as no factory blueprints are available.
One thing to note is that when fitting a new mainspring, is to check to see that there is clearance between the hammer pivot boss & the mainspring behind the leg. We try to make our legs slightly longer than originals to be sure they function, but there is a fine line here in that if the leg is overly long it is about impossible to get the hammer into position under tension to get the pivot screw in. It is possible to find a combination of the hammer & new mainsprings that miss-match if the mainspring tab is slightly short or the hammer notch is slightly deep. This will result in misfiring, as the hammer can be slowed down right at the instant required for primer penetration. If this is the case, a slight amount of metal can be removed from this pinch point of the hammer.
After years of fighting to install the LH mainspring in these firearms, (the RH is relatively easy) Wisner's has developed a installation tool that simplifies the process. This tool was the result of many years of thought & prototype tools until the final one emerged. For information on it CLICK HERE. We can not warrantee these mainsprings if you use pliers & screwdrivers, butcher & break them by trying to install them in a wrong position & tell us we make defective parts. Therefore we recommend that you purchase one of our tools if you have any intention of replacing more than a single spring.
Placement of RH hammer spring Illustration of placement of LH hammer spring
There has to be clearance here
CHARLES DALY / MIROKU O/U SHOTGUNS
revised 08-08-05
Made by Miroku, under the Charles Daly name from 1963 to 1976.
Not a lot is really known about this firearm, as retaining data apparently was not thought important when they were being sold, the actual manufacturer was in Japan & the exchange of information dwindled. And most of those gunsmiths, or persons who were involved are now deceased. The company got sold a couple of times, then went in limbo for some years & the current Charles Daly, owned by KBI since 1996 has no parts or records for these models. On their website it says "Unfortunately there are not many parts available any longer in the US for these older Daly shotguns". Their new line of guns imported from Spain uses the same models but with a roman numeral II after the grade.
The Bluebook of Gun Values has some information under Miroku & Charles Daly, listed below as quoted. "Shotguns marked Miroku only without another trademark listing represent that period of manufacture before Miroku began manufacturing shotguns for other companies (i.e. Charles Daly, SKB, Browning, and others)". To the best of our information this is correct EXCEPT for the SKB, as they have their own plant. As stated in the Standard Catalog of Firearms, 13th edition. "Miroku, B. C., is a Japanese company that not only markets under their own name, but has made firearms for Charles Daly, Browning, Winchester and SKB (Ithaca) and others". This is partly correct, but the Winchester 101 & 96 O/U & Weatherby Olympian O/U were made by Nikko, while SKB made their own & O/Us for Ithaca at one time.
Miroku did for a limited time sell a version of their 500 double shotgun to Wards, & was marketed under Western Field name. Miroku also did make USRA's Winchester limited run of 71, 86, 92, 95 rifles, but we are not talking about rifles in this article.
If you doubt our word for the O/Us, try to install Winchester 101 parts in either the Charles Daly or the Ithaca O/U.
Also from the Bluebook of Gun Values, "Most guns marked Miroku only were made on a limited basis and although somewhat rare, collector desirability to date has been minimal. Since model notations were not specified in most instances (many shotguns were made to test market demand), a model rundown is virtually impossible. Values can be approx. ascertained by comparing a Miroku shotgun of similar gauge, features, engraving/wood, and condition to an equivalent Japanese Charles Daly model."
"In the sixties, C. Daly guns were manufactured by the firm of B. C. Miroku in Tokyo, Japan." We have however seen some marked Kouhi Japan. "This Japanese gun manufacturing company was producing guns for many companies, Browning being the biggest current customer. Miroku guns are high quality with excellent fit and finish. Many of them are highly engraved and are fine examples of the gunmakers art. Some Charles Daly Miroku Guns are becoming collectable in some areas (smaller gauges with open chokes). Their production ceased in 1976."
The most common Charles Daly guns encountered of this era will be the over-under that was made by Miroku before Browning entered the scene to became the Miroku's prime outlet. However it is possible that after Charles Daly departed the scene & before a contract with Browning was signed, that Miroku sold guns under their own name in the US, but still using same s/n range, as depicted by one gun we own. We know of one gun purchased at the Miroku plant that had Charles Daly's name on it.
The whole line of type 3 guns were basically similar to the later Browning's Citori type I, (introduced in 1973) except they had "V" mainsprings. If you read Midwest Gun Works, (who is closely associated with USRA/Browning), website, they make reference to a pre-Citori type 1, which may be close to the last one imported by Charles Daly. It has been recently discovered that FN & Miroku purchased 90% of Browning's stock in 1977. Possibly that could have been a contributing factor for Charles Daly Japanese shotguns being discontinued.
Miroku is still making O/U shotguns sold under their name in other countries of the world other than North America, which Browning apparently has tied up.
Model identification is very important when ordering parts for these old guns, especially the top lever springs for the Over/Under guns. Apparently initially the guns may have sold under the Miroku name, then Chas Daly started importing them using their name. However even for the Charles Daly guns, on the bottom of the receiver was engraved, B.C. Miroku. These Chas Daly guns, (which you will see more commonly in relationship to the number of actual Miroku brand), there appear to be 4 different MAIN grades within each gauge & the grade apparently was assigned a different serial number block for each according to the information we obtained. The MAIN grades were Hunter, or later the Venture, Field, Superior & Diamond. A 1968 dealer price sheet lists the Venture grade, ("formerly the Hunter grade") in 12 gauge only. So, it appears the earlier Hunter was renamed to the Venture at about this time.
In the Superior grade there were then different trap/skeet sub-grades. It appears for all the models, the grades were intended to be rollmarked on the barrels on the same line as the manufacturers name & address. Also in the mix somehow, the butt-stocks used a different pistol grip shape for the different grades, and this however may have changed over the years.
Engraving was different for each grade, but at this point we believe it also was changed as time went on, but possibly the Superior grade staying somewhat the same. Our 1968 catalog & price list shows the New Superior engraving. As you read below it may become apparent why model identification is so important because of the internal changes.
Not much has been found as to model NUMBERS except some customers have said that theirs have markings of model 700 & 800. This appears to have been in the earlier guns for the Superior Trap/Skeet grades. If this model identification was used on the later guns, it may only have been on the order sheets & box ends.
APPARENT SHOTGUN BARREL CHOKE MARKINGS
* FC (full choke) **- IC (improved cylinder
*- IM (improved modified) **$ SK (skeet)
** M (modified) *** CYL (cylinder)
If you noticed that we frequently use the words "appears", "possibly", "probably", etc. it is because we are not sure, & this is our best guess as to what may have happened in that time period some years ago.
THREE DIFFERENT FRAME SIZES - There were 3 different frame sizes. the 12ga, in the large size, 20ga, 28ga, & 410 in medium size & a limited number of the small frame in 28ga. This small frame appears to have been made for Charles Daly & only in 28ga & then apparently only to do a market sampling with less than 200 ever made.
To identify the different large & medium frame versions WE have divided them into types, distinguished by the type of top lever spring used. The small frame is covered near the end of this article.
FOUR DIFFERENT TOP LEVER SPRINGS - There were 4 different types of top lever springs within the grades as described below for the large & medium frame sizes. And then a transition version has also been located.
It will be impossible to tell for sure which type top lever spring your gun has until the buttstock is removed so you can visually identify the proper spring. We can make an educated guess, but sometime in the past, IF your gun possibly had a broken top lever & was retrofitted with the then most current type, you will not know unless you actually look. And then know what you are looking for. That is the reason for this article.
The one part that is often broken is the Vee type top lever spring, but over the production span of this gun, we have found where the manufacturer changed it 3 times before it was finally made using a coil spring. The spare part list commonly in circulation is only for the 3rd version. The factory part numbers at this time did specify "Old or New Style", but used the same numbers. Since we have no record of the earlier part numbers, for positive part identification, we have utilized the latest known part number and then added type 1, 2, or 3. This is based on what serial numbers we have & a common sense machine shop approach as to ease of manufacturing for the different known springs, using the harder to make & trying to verify serial numbers as the earliest. This information has taken years of working on them, to acquire & then assemble in some form of what we think may have happened.
You will have to take the buttstock off to be certain as to the type of this spring used on your specific gun.
We believe it was the TYPE 1, that used a thin "Vee" type spring about 1.33" long, that had a round peg protruding downward, and a half-moon notch cut in this peg for a retainer cross-pin. This spring lays on and is pinned into the lower tang in the trigger area, and ran longitudinal with the gun. The locking block is machined out at the RH rear to accept the tails of this spring. The picture below is of a type 1, 12ga. You can see the trigger pivot pin in the lower tang to the right of the arrow head. The other hole farther to the right of it is to retain the trigger guard. The top lever retainer pin hole is in the lower tang again & to the left of the arrow above the extended trigger.
The top lever spring peg uses a cross pin as a retainer. The 12 ga. have this cross pin to the rear part of the peg, while the 20 ga. cross pin is in front of the peg.
TYPE 1 shown above
TYPE 2 shown below, was a much bulkier Vee spring, & from a top view, looked somewhat like a heavy fish hook. It was about 1.92" long on the long side and had an approx. 1/8" hole in the front for a retainer pin that the cocking lever pivot pin went into as a anchor for this spring. The other shorter side of this Vee, is about .98" long, & puts tension on the rear side of the lower top lever shaft.
TYPE 2 shown above
TYPE 3 shown below, was a smaller "V" spring about 1.13" long that was positioned again just above the locking block, but when in place it ran crosswise in the gun, it had a slight notch on one tail of the "V" which snapped behind part of the inner receiver wall, this prevented it from popping out, as the other tail was bearing on the front of the lower top lever shaft. In the picture below, you can see just the tails of it to the right & left of the narrow, as the Vee bend is on the LH side of the receiver. This spring seems to be the most common one.
TYPE 3 shown above
There also appears to be a Transition gun using the type 3 top lever spring but has coil springs for hammer & ejector hammers.
The TYPE 4 shown below, top lever spring is a (3) piece coil type unit that uses a turned down plungered rod with a square front base that rides just above the RH side of the locking block against the rear inside of the receiver frame. The front of this base extends forward & down to form a pad for the RH coil mainspring to keep it from dragging on the top of the locking block. On the rear of this rod is the coil spring .208 dia & just over 1" long that runs lengthwise with the gun. It utilizes a bar that is shaped somewhat like a Z, with a hole that goes over the rod & behind the spring, that the front of the Z puts tension on the lower bottom front of the top lever shaft.
The picture below shows a Chas Daly Venture grade Type 4, 20 ga. & you can see the coil spring above the locking plate. Notice the lesser degree of engraving for this grade.
Needless to say, all the 4 top levers have a different notch cut for a pressure pad of their respective springs.
TYPE 4 shown above
HAMMERS - The advertisement off their brochures mention that their patented upside down hammer design gives equal power to the firing pin no matter whether it is for the top or bottom barrel. This is referring to competitors models that have both hammers pivoted at the bottom & are prone to a bottom barrel misfire problem when the hammer springs have taken a set.
HAMMER SPRINGS - These are sometimes referred to as mainsprings, & the most encountered problem will be the broken Vee type mainsprings. These springs are a "V" type with a protruding right angle tail on the short end, which puts pressure on the hammer beyond the pivot point, the other end just bears against the frame. These mainsprings are different, in that the hammer pressure pad side being the same but the other tail side has two different lengths. If you were to keep a spare, the longer top spring #2211 (LH) can be shortened if needed. Also the 20/28ga/410 are a slightly overall shortened version and you can't modify a 12ga to fit the 20ga.
The problem is when replacing the mainsprings, with the spring in position in the receiver, then the hammer on top of the spring & the hammer has to compress this spring. You then need to insert the pivot screw, while positioning the ejector operating rod so the screw goes in the hole of the rod. For bottom barrel, or RH side, the top lever assembly will have to be removed also to be able to insert the new spring. The RH side hammer can usually be assembled by prying it in position with a medium screwdriver & then lock it in a somewhat position with a tapered punch. Once it is retained by the punch, you can get a better grip with the screwdriver & then remove the punch & insert the screw.
The LH side is assembled using somewhat the same method. But you will probably need the help of an assistant as the pivot point is lower & harder to hold with just one screwdriver. Occasionally I have seen that the hammer will not go into the receiver slot with a new mainspring in position. If this is the case you may need to de-horn the inside front corner of the sear pivot pin boss. This allows the hammer to snap into the slot.
Wisner's Inc is working on producing a mainspring installation tool that greatly helps installing the LH side mainspring.
Even though the factory literature says otherwise, this gun is one situation where the hammers should be let down on a snap cap when the gun is put away, to take tension off the otherwise heavily compressed Vee type mainspring.
FIRING PINS - The firing pins are the same for both the top & bottom barrels. In the time frame of manufacturing, the design was changed, but only to add a coil type return spring, and it appears the two styles FP will interchange if corresponding spring is also changed. If the older non coil spring type become dirty inside, the firing pins can stick forward & the action will be hard to open. To identify which type you have, with the action off the barrels, using a pencil or similar object, push the tip back into the face of the receiver & it should return to original position if spring type.
EJECTOR SPRINGS - These springs for the first 3 types are "Vee" type, and made in RH or LH versions. They are made basically the same style as the hammer springs, but the difference is they have a small stud on the rear that goes into a hole in the forearm iron for retention. This stud is made on either the RH or LH side depending on the application. The LH spring activates the top ejector.
In this picture illustration of the forearm below, the type 4 is on top, & you can see the coil spring for the RH side. You will also notice that this forearm has the later finger grooves on the top edge of the wood. The bottom illustration is for the type 1 thru type 3 & the Vee springs are buried under the forearm iron & in the wood. On the right are the forearm iron assemblies removed from the wood.
Hammer Lever Receiving Rod, late style
>
Hammer Lever Receiving Rod early, round (type 1)
On the above picture, the Mono Blocks & rods are different. The frames also have different cut outs to match the corresponding rods. The assumption is that the type 1 top lever spring probably coincided with the early round receiving rod.
SMALL FRAME SIZE - This frame & internal configuration of the parts are totally different than the other larger sizes. The width of the frame is 1.330 s compared to the medium, or the 20 ga frame which is 1.450 wide. Both the hammers pivot from the bottom. The distance on the standing breech between the centers of the firing pins is .772. The firing pins are 2 piece, with the front being spring loaded & the rear being just a striker against the front FP. The firing pin strikers are pinned into the frame crosswise & separately. The mainsprings lay horizontal on top of the lower tang & they slide horizontally as the hammer is cocked. These Vee type mainsprings are made in a RH & a LH version with a tab protruding down on the inside front tail that rides in a slot in the lower tang that retains the spring from popping outward. The hammers appear to not be rebounding type, & the cocking cam is timed close enough that just as the barrels start to open the hammers are retracted.
The top lever spring is a coil type very similar to the Browning Superposed. The only thing that appears to interchange with it's larger frame brothers is the firing pin bushings. The ejector trip rods lay horizontal in the lower part of the frame. Barrels are 26" long.
The name Charles Daly 28ga, 2 3/4" is engraved on the top LH side of the top chamber. This makes sense in that if only a limited number of guns were to be built, there was no sense of having a roll made. Also the B.C. Miroku on the bottom of the frame is also engraved in. The serial number has a prefix of S & the numbers on the sample gun we have seen is 2300XX, indicating that there may be some possible serial number coding for all of the models & with this particular model having it's own range.
FINAL COUNT DOWN - After Chas Daly discontinued these Miroku guns in 1976 or thereabouts, Browning stepped in & had Miroku make guns for them. This basically the same O/U was then known as the Browning Citori model. During manufacturing under Browning's name, the types were also changed as things got improved. The type 4 Chas Daly gun appears to be basically is a Browning Citori pre-type I, which had coil mainsprings & top lever spring. However parts for the Citori type I, are now obsolete, but Western Gun Parts in Edmonton Canada purchased the last remaining parts from Browning a few years ago, & does have some parts left in inventory. Bear in mind however they may not be an exact interchange with the all the Charles Daly guns.
Back to CD/Miroku page
LISTED BELOW IS THE INFORMATION (right/wrong ?) THAT WE HAVE. It is suspected that the serial number information we have is incomplete, in that using this coding there could be duplicate serial numbers between the grades. The starting numbers could most likely not have started at zero or maybe even anywhere close to that, (our guess would be closer to 100,000) as it seems questionable that the Superior grade guns were made in a larger quantity than the Field, Venture & Hunter grades combined. There could have been blocks of numbers assigned with gaps in the mix. Or the first 1 or 2 numbers in the serial number could have a code to identify a gauge/grade, or assembly line. Or, these Charles Daly guns came into the Miroku system at Miroku's existing serial numbers & were then co-mingled & serial numbered with the Miroku worldwide production. This last thought makes more sense to us in that we have never seen or heard of any Charles Daly gun much lower than the 6 digit 120,000 serial number range.
With the above last thought in mind, then it would be about impossible to narrow down year of production unless directly from Miroku, if that is possible. This would possibly explain why, based on the quantities of each spring we sell each year why the serial numbers above don't seem to be possible to obtain if just for the Charles Day guns. Also we do not know what serial numbers the type 3 ended at, which would then tell us the serial numbers when the type 4 coil springs were introduced.
SHOWN BELOW: These pictures of a gun has no manufacturers name on it but is obviously of Miroku manufacture as many parts interchange as the sears etc. It has the "SKEET GUN" hand stamped on the RH top barrel & has Model OS engraved on both sides of the receiver. The serial number 60,3XX is stamped on the top flat of the RH side of the receiver which is covered up by the monoblock part of the barrels when closed. On the bottom of the receiver in the position where normally is engraved "BC Miroku", is the word JAPAN, & under that is a crown type shield with a standing bear inside. It has Japan stamped on about all the major parts, has some proof marks that are not familiar. The firing pins are retained by a long vertical screw coming in from the bottom of the frame. There are no firing pin bushings as the FPs come in from the rear.
The sear pivot block is screwed onto the underside of the top tang. It has a 3/16" square hole on the RH side running at an angle that is in alignment with the RH edge of the top lever that apparently was a remnant of an earlier method of placing tension on the top lever using some spring loaded plunger system. It uses the same basic top lever spring system as our type 1, except the peg is smaller (.094) & the overall length is shorter (1.015") & which we now will call the (pre type 1). The locking block retracting stud in the top lever uses a .164" square hole thru the top lever.
The sear pivot base is a separate unit that is screwed onto the upper tang from the underside. There is a square slot with a cross pin type hole in the top LH side of the sear pivot base that is not used, indicating that it may have been left over from a previous version not utilized on this "pre type 1". The top lever coupling pin is different in that it goes into a square hole in the bottom of the lever shaft.
Barrels are 26 1/2" long & have not been cut. It also has the early round receiving rod in the monoblock.
Hand Stamped Model OS
ONE METHOD OF IDENTIFICATION: The shape of the buttstocks may generally the easiest way to tell the earlier grade other than the actual grade engraved on the barrel. It appears from the brochures we have obtained, that Field & Venture grade guns had a rounded pistol grip up until at least 1968. Some Venture grades had a more flared pistol grip similar to the later Brownings. But it is suspected this had more to do with the vintage of the gun than the actual grade. Trap & skeet guns could have been available in either a standard or a Monte-Marlo comb.
It appears that the Hunter/Venture grade was a lower grade than the Field from the pricing we find. This is rather uncommon, as most Field grade guns for other manufacturers are the lowest price. We find in 1967, they are advertising a NEW Hunter grade, with minimal engraving for $250. The information off a 1968 sales sheet, lists the Venture grade, (formerly Hunter). If this is so, then the Hunter grade only lasted one year, at least until we gather additional information.
A 1970 add mentions their newest innovation for the trap & skeet guns & calling it the "Selexor", which is a patented selector system that gives you flexibility for manual or automatic shell ejection. This optional selective ejection system was available on some Superior grade Trap guns. There was a small serrated rectangular button on both sides of the outside bottom rear of the receiver that can deactivate the ejectors. The RH button when moved up, pushes outward on the ejector trip rod, disengaging it from the trip stud on the hammer. This allows the shooter a manual selector that disengages the ejector & used primarily for trap shooters & only available on guns appropriate to this sport.
There is a hole drilled on the bottom of each side of the receiver & up into the receiver at the internal edge of the recess for the butt stock. Here a round shaft extends upward to near the ejector trip rod. A selector button, using a small rectangular peg that goes into the shaft & held in place by a 4mm screw. Also there is a spring detent that rides in a hole in the lower part of the receiver that puts tension on a plunger that detents into 2 notches in the shaft. The upper end of the shaft has a thinned tip that when pushed up, it pushes the ejector trip out, & away from the hammer activator stud, thereby disabling the ejector for that side of the gun. We have a CAD drawing of the RH unit, from s/n 59280X.
The 20 & 28 ga. & 410 were made on a smaller frame size than the 12ga.
It appears that early on, a small frame size was used on about 500 28ga guns before the 28ga was upsized to use the 20ga frame. This change was in the height of the difference between the firing pins & appears to only be applicable to the 28ga guns.
We have seen some older magazine articles written on these guns & from what information we have compiled, there are a few discrepancies in at least one article.
CHARLES DALY O/U TOP LEVER SERIAL NUMBERS
AS SUPPLIED TO US
TYPE 1
0?- 306366 12ga Venture
0?- 216522 12ga Field
0?- 540083 12ga Superior
0?- 355645 20ga Field
0?- 213352 20ga Superior
TYPE 2
no Ventures used thus style
216523 - 371702 12ga Field
540084 - 543618 12ga Superior
no 20ga used this style
" " " " "
TYPE 3
306367 to coil 12ga Venture
371703 to coil 12ga Field
543619 to coil 12ga Superior
??? 20ga Venture
355646 to coil 20ga Field
213353 to coil 20ga Superior
Where in this numbering system do the Skeet guns fit, possibly in with the Superior Trap guns ??
There is one known transition gun (type 3 1/2) with coil MS & ejector hammer springs but the type 3 top lever spring.
Information has been relayed by an experienced shotgun gunsmith somewhat associated with this model who scavenged information from the old importer's (Sloans) gunsmith, that the last 2 years of production, the guns had coil springs. And that Sloan's/Charles Daly at one time offered coil spring upgrades to the older guns. We have found an owner that has a letter from Sloan's with an offer to convert his type 3 to coil springs that is dated 7-1-76. This was AFTER Charles Daly was discontinued, & Sloans still may have had connections with Miroku for parts, & they were doing these conversions as a gunsmithing service, it would not have been officially connected to the Outdoor Sports Headquarters Charles Daly company.
Some owners have the dates recorded when they purchased their guns, but depending on inventory on hand at the distributor & dealer level, this dating may not have been close to being accurate if for a slow moving version.
Some known serial numbers have no prefix & then others with letter prefix include "S" & "M". One gun does not have the serial number prefix on the upper tang, but definitely has it in the forearm. It is possible the prefix "M" was for Miroku marked guns (not sold by Charles Daly) as we do have one sample of this, but one gun is not enough to draw good conclusions. It is also highly possible that the serial numbers are mixed between both Charles Daly & Miroku, as we are sure the Miroku factory was producing guns for the rest of the world simultaneously.
We have heard of (2) 12 ga guns that apparently were older types 1 or 2 that are known to have had the top levers broken. These levers were replaced with the newer type & the guns retrofitted to the type 3 style top lever spring.
Trap O/U guns had the auto safety engage bar removed. This was a bar that was screwed onto the LH side of the locking block just rearward of the top lever coupling pin & extends up & over the LH sear & into the safety slot in the receiver which automatically resets the safety when the gun is opened.
Single barrel trap guns were probably Superior grades with the bottom barrel removed from the forearm forward & the rear section not bored out. Some of these were apparently were labeled model 300.
Some Field grade guns apparently had no grade markings to identify that. Even one with Superior grade engraving has been observed with no grade on the barrel.
We have encountered 3 customers guns that have with "Commander" engraved on the barrel as if that is the model. One of these had Field type engraving & the older round Field type pistol grip stock, that also on the bottom of the frame had BC Miroku in the normal place & then in an arc below, Model 700. While another was marked model 800.
One 20ga O/U has been encountered marked Anshutz-Miroku s/n 362,60X. But the Anshutz name was machine engraved on the LH side of the top barrel after the gun was buffed & blued. It appears that Anschutz probably was the importer of this gun into Europe. This gun was a type 3.
We have one customer who purchased 4 Skeet guns AT the Miroku factory in Japan in 1967 or 68, one of each gauge/caliber. All were Mirokus except the 410 which was marked Chas Daly. He has sold the 2 smaller gauges but the 12ga is #204,9XX & the 20ga is #217,5XX
We have another owner who has a Chas Daly 12ga Venture grade Trap gun in the type 4. All the literature we have found indicates the trap guns were in Superior grade ?? But in that this is a late gun, maybe they were assembled from remaining parts. ??
Initially the Venture grade 20ga S/N 334,40X on the following list was thought to have been a type 3, retrofitted to coil springs. However it appears not, in that the front of the slots for the hammers are drilled from the bottom, instead of milled from the rear like the earlier types. The insert for the RH hammer spring pad could not have been a retrofit by how it is machined. This gun has a more rounded bottom front receiver than the later guns.
Most guns were fitted with a (2) holed firing pin bushing. However one type 4 12ga we have inspected has 3 holes. This was thought to have possibly been at the change for the spring loaded firing pin, however we find more than one gun with spring loaded firing pins with only the 2 holed bushing. Maybe these bushings were a later, or replacement type if the firing pins were replaced.
Some of the above information may be wrong, mixed up or fuzzy, & confusing, if you can clear up even any small areas, (or add to the confusion) then maybe we can improve what we have to find some common denominator & thereby help the shooting world. Each gun that we observe sometimes gives us new information, but it also can add to the puzzle.
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Copyright c 2004-2005 Wisner's Inc. All Rights Reserved
Last Modified 11-18-2005
LeeRoy Wisner
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