Bert -- Use of Lever Guns by US Military

Wolf.

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I thought perhaps you and other students of Winchester history might find this bit of anecdotal evidence interesting, if you have not already seen it. I did note that Mr. Reef made some assumptions about his observations, but probably not too far out of line.

American Rifleman magazine
Correspondence/Readers Write column
May 2008 - Volume 156, No. 5
Page 20

More On Military Model 94s
I found the article on the military Winchester 1894 .30-30 carbine very interesting (February 2008, p. 48). After reading it, I recalled seeing a lever-action carbine in use while in the Navy. I was stationed in Norman, Okla., in 1957 at the Naval Aviation Prep School. There was supposedly a brig for hard-case prisoners at the base. Whether true or not, we occasionally saw prisoners marched to the chow hall by guards carrying lever-action carbines and shotguns. I never got a close enough look to identify them because we were not supposed to look at the prisoners, but I still remember the surprise at seeing sailors carrying lever-action rifles.
Bob Reef, Indianapolis

Bert H.

Hello Wolf,

Thank you for the interesting post, but...

I find it very very doubtful that the U.S. Navy was using Winchester Model 94s in 1957. In fact, I am not aware of the U.S. Navy ever officially using a Model 94 at any time in history. Not that I am an expert on U.S. Naval history, I did serve from January 1979 - February 2000.

The first (and only) offical use of the Winchester Model 1894 by the U.S. Military was during WW I (the 1800 or so Spruce Guns). Throughout the long history of both the U.S. Military and Winchester, very very few lever-action were ever actually purchased and used.

Wolf.

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And, that's why it's called anecdotal evidence.

I understand your point in that there may be no documented evidence of the situtation this guy describes. However, he saw something and I have no reason to doubt his letter. We know that he made the assumption the rifles were Winchester 94s, because he wasn't allowed to get close enough to verify the make and model of the rifles. The answer to this could be as simple as the base commander providing money from his discretionary fund and authorizing his SP detachment officer to go locally purchase the comparatively lighter Wincheter Model 1894s (or Marlins, for that matter), in whatever caliber, for the SP to carry while moving prisoners, rather than M14s or M1s.

Anyway........yes, it is interesting. We might see more on this from others in future issues of American Rifleman.

Mobuck

There are many instances where obsolete/put of service arms are relegated to rear eschelon uses. Whether official or just a field expedient use of what is available such tidbits add an interesting twist to the historical use of civilian arms by the military.

bobski

lever actions were used for shark watch in 44-40. it was the only round that could penetrate the skin of a shark slightly under water. i saw them. i was there.

steve45

Bobski, I watched a mythbusters episode awhile back about shooting military weapons into water. Using military FMJ bullets 30-06 and 50 BMG did not penetrate far because the bullets blew up due to the high velocity. The 9mm pistol ended up doing well.

bobski

what i saw was not a myth. we use to do our own testing....on live targets. works just fine. shark tastes just like swordfish.[;)] the sharks would also chase the spent brass as it sank. you could see it a long way down in the south pacific.

Wolf.

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bobski,

Where and when did your experience with the military use of lever actions take place, and what was the manufacturer and model of the weapon(s) involved? What was the source of these lever guns? I assume you were in the Navy or the Marines?

Mr. Reef cites the year of his experience as 1957. Mobuck's comment that, "There are many instances where obsolete/put of service arms are relegated to rear eschelon uses. Whether official or just a field expedient use of what is available such tidbits add an interesting twist to the historical use of civilian arms by the military.", may be illogical, since in 1957 this country was not actively involved in any major conflict. Therefore, I would think that military weapons of the then-latest-issue would be the most readily available to the military unless specific requirements demanded something else. Even so, I would think that the ubiquitous M1 Carbine would have fulfilled any requirement for the SP.

Xracer

quote:.....may be illogical, since in 1957 this country was not actively involved in any major conflict. Therefore, I would think that military weapons of the then-latest-issue would be the most readily available to the military unless specific requirements demanded something else. Even so, I would think that the ubiquitous M1 Carbine would have fulfilled any requirement for the SP.


Not necessarily. In 1955 I was stationed at the U.S. Naval Training Center in Bainbridge, MD, and often saw the Brig Guards (Marine MP's) marching the "Brig Boys" to the Mess Hall. They were carrying Winchester '97s.

givette

Concur on pump shotguns [Portsmouth Naval Prison, Kittery, ME. 1966].

However, don't recall if they were '97's or the other one (can't remember make/model-didn't have a hammer), however, the brig chasers definately had bayonet lugs on their shotguns when marching CMP's to Portsmouth Naval Hospital for shots, etc. Best, Joe

kimi

I remembering watching the Brig Guards at KBay, HI for two years, on and off, as they would march the prisoners to chow and back. They always carried riot guns that looked to be Winchester Model 12s, along with the old .45s. (More interesting though was the truly fascinating ability of the prisoners to execute the Brig-Step at a double time shuffle, and the column movements were especially impressive with their footwork that included stomp, shift, slide, and shuffle like movements accompanied by chants and hand slaps. [:D] Truly a lost art!)

Base/station special services would have a variety of long guns for hunting purposes, but I do not recall if any were lever guns. Someone here on GB noted not long ago that weapons were often bought on the local market for military use, but I can't vouch to that, although it does make sense.