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Barnes TTSX Bullet Performance
22hipower
Member Posts: 619 ✭✭✭✭
I'd like to get input from those of you who may have used Barnes TTSX bullets on large game. The bullets in the picture are 7mm 150 TTSX in front of 60 grains of IMR4831 in Remington 700 7 Rem Mag Rifles. The first bullet (left) weighed 104 grains and was recovered from a Kudu shot through the left shoulder and was found just under the skin on the right shoulder. The second (103 grains) was from a wildebeest and third (139 grains) from a warthog shot lengthwise. Another eight animals were taken with the same load but those shots were through and through and the bullets were not recovered. One was a wildebeest that was found 100 yards from the shot and there was no blood trail; a pair of Jack Russell terriers could find no blood trail. The shot was too far back and too high but hit a lung resulting in the bull piling up within 100 yards of the shot. Can't argue with the one shot kills but our PHs were very disappointed with the recovered bullets. I contacted Barnes and their response basically was "stuff" happens. These recovered bullets certainly don't look like the ones in the Barnes advertisements. Your thoughts?
Edit: 6/24/12: Thanks to all for the comments so far. I agree "dead is dead" and that shot placement is the key factor. What I'm trying to decide is if the "penciling through" with these TTSXs is typical or that this box of bullets may have been an aberration. Try as I may, every shot will not be perfect, and a mushroom of .5/.6 should make a larger exit hole and leave more blood trail than these recovered bullets demonstrate. If there is another bullet that reliably does that I'd like to try it. On the other hand, if this is as good as it gets, I will continue to use the Barnes bullets. Our PHs in Africa see lots of recovered bullets; they were not impressed with these.
Edit: 6/24/12: Thanks to all for the comments so far. I agree "dead is dead" and that shot placement is the key factor. What I'm trying to decide is if the "penciling through" with these TTSXs is typical or that this box of bullets may have been an aberration. Try as I may, every shot will not be perfect, and a mushroom of .5/.6 should make a larger exit hole and leave more blood trail than these recovered bullets demonstrate. If there is another bullet that reliably does that I'd like to try it. On the other hand, if this is as good as it gets, I will continue to use the Barnes bullets. Our PHs in Africa see lots of recovered bullets; they were not impressed with these.
Comments
BTW, that's a sorry response from Barnes. [:(!][xx(][V]
I have been using Barnes "X", XLC(blue coated X), TSX, and TTSX bullets since their inception. Even though I have several rifles, I use them in most of my 30 caliber's, a 243, and a 223. I don't have experience with them on African game, and I don't have any recovered TTSX bullets. I have experience with Whitetail, Mule deer, and Elk, with these bullets.
Actually all the recovered bullets I have are the XLC bullets, and there are only two...one is a 130 grain 30 caliber, fored from a 30-06, that was recovered from a Whitetail, quarting away at 160 yards. The bullet was placed in his flank, just ahead of the left hind leg, and was recovered under the skin of the right front shoulder. It looks just like the bullets in their commercial's.
The seconed one is a 22 caliber 45 grain XLC, that was again recovered from a Whitetail, fired from a 223 TC Encore rifle. It was a broadside shot, between 190, and 200 yards. It broke the onside front shoulder, then destroyed the lungs, and top of the heart, proceeded to break the ofside shoulder, and lodge under the skin. Once again, it was picture perfect.
In both cases, the deer took off, and run 3 feet, straight down, which has been mostly my experience, with any good expanding bullet, and good shot placement. Something I can tell you, that with the Barne's any style "X" bullets(X, XLC, TSX, TTSX), that you can drop of at least one size in weight, compared to what you would usually shoot in a lead core bullet. I use the 130 grain TTSX exclusively in the 308 Win(Encore handgun), 30-06, and 300 Win.Mag, and have stepped up to the 62 grain TSX in the 223, as I am using a 1 in 8 twist in an AR-15 now.
IMHO, you will not find a lead core that has on game performance better than the Barne's all copper bullets.
Best
EDIT 1
That statement in red, includes ANY, and ALL lead core bullets, especially the Nosler Partition. Nosler's Accubond is more bullet than the Partition. Must be something in the water(pun intended), as some manufacturer's(Hornady's GMX, and Nosler's E-Tip) are introducing all copper bullets...Hmmm.
first i would like to say and you already know this. shot placement is first and foremost.
i built a 22-6mm for whitetail. i chose a barnes because the sierra bullets would come apart in flight. at 100 yds the 55gr. barnes ttsx@3980 fps penetrated 24inches of wet newspaper completly.
with that said, i knew shot placement would be critical.
i am looking at going back to the nosler partition, i think you should too.
The all copper bullet does require a few things to be done a little different than normal bullets....like a complete, copper/glideing metal free bore, and then you cant switch back and forth between normal bullets and Barnes without a good cleaning again, unless you dont mind inaccurate rifles.
Also, you dont get the velocity out of barnes that you do other brands, but bullet performance more than makes up of this....and then some. I find that it is also easier to find that "magic" load with Barnes.....I believe this may have something to do with each bullet being machined, rather than pressed or formed......machined makes for more consistant tolerances.
But, ya, shot placement is the most important of all, no matter who's bullet you use.
Looks like very poor or no expansion ... time to look for better performing bullets.
BTW, that's a sorry response from Barnes. [:(!][xx(][V]
Actually you are wrong. There was complete expansion. The 'petals' were lost. I have only seem this happen is a tests where the velocity was high and the median 'tough'. I have used the "X" design bullets for over 30 years. I have shot elk, boo, deer, and prairie goats with them and NEVER recovered any bullets from game but got mostly one shot kills even at ranges out to 460 yds. In the 270, 06, 7 RM, 7-08, 338 WM, and 35 Whelen.
I would hazard a guess that, for what ever reason, these bullets were 'softer' than the Barnes bullets I have used.
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
Looks like very poor or no expansion ... time to look for better performing bullets.
BTW, that's a sorry response from Barnes. [:(!][xx(][V]
Actually you are wrong. There was complete expansion. The 'petals' were lost. I have only seem this happen is a tests where the velocity was high and the median 'tough'. I have used the "X" design bullets for over 30 years. I have shot elk, boo, deer, and prairie goats with them and NEVER recovered any bullets from game but got mostly one shot kills even at ranges out to 460 yds. In the 270, 06, 7 RM, 7-08, 338 WM, and 35 Whelen.
I would hazard a guess that, for what ever reason, these bullets were 'softer' than the Barnes bullets I have used.
You're right, I just a similar result from the GS custom bullet website! I should not have made that statement since I do not have hands on experience with any Barnes bullet, Safari hunts, or have recovered any bullets on any of the big game harvests I had for the last 35 years from antelope size game to elk up 600 yards. All of the bullets (mostly NPs, NABs, BTs,SSTs, IBs, A-Max, Berger VLDs, etc...) off my go hunting calibers - 7 MM STWs, .300 WMs, and .338 WMs exited through.
I guess I am just used to full exit with massive wound channels like ...
DRT, no tracking required! [}:)]
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
Looks like very poor or no expansion ... time to look for better performing bullets.
BTW, that's a sorry response from Barnes. [:(!][xx(][V]
Actually you are wrong. There was complete expansion. The 'petals' were lost. I have only seem this happen is a tests where the velocity was high and the median 'tough'. I have used the "X" design bullets for over 30 years. I have shot elk, boo, deer, and prairie goats with them and NEVER recovered any bullets from game but got mostly one shot kills even at ranges out to 460 yds. In the 270, 06, 7 RM, 7-08, 338 WM, and 35 Whelen.
I would hazard a guess that, for what ever reason, these bullets were 'softer' than the Barnes bullets I have used.
You're right, I just a similar result from the GS custom bullet website! I should not have made that statement since I do not have hands on experience with any Barnes bullet, Safari hunts, or have recovered any bullets on any of the big game harvests I had for the last 35 years from antelope size game to elk up 600 yards. All of the bullets (mostly NPs, NABs, BTs,SSTs, IBs, A-Max, Berger VLDs, etc...) off my go hunting calibers - 7 MM STWs, .300 WMs, and .338 WMs exited through.
I guess I am just used to full exit with massive wound channels like ...
DRT, no tracking required! [}:)]
Since you say you have never used Barnes bullets, we can suffice to say, that you have not a clue about them, and from what I see, any other bullet.
At best all a bullet is, or can be is a mechanical devise(actually it is a flying holesaw). Any mechanical devise is prone to fail, at some point in its life. When I look at the picture you included, I cannot help but ask...don't you understand that that mess is also considered bullet failure? If it is not bullet failure, then it is at best someone choosing the wrong bullet for the job.
At any rate dead is dead.
Best
22hipower,
I think it's critical to continue to note that your bullets DID perform because of the end result. Maybe they didn't look like the photographs in the advertisements but neither do McDonald's hamburgers. Not every bullet will perform exactly as advertised in every rifle, in every situation and with every head of game. The variables change the outcome.
I have a friend who went to Africa strictly for plains game and shot 11 animals with only one requiring a second shot. The bullets used were the TTSX loaded in the .300 Ruger Compact Magnum. He recovered 3 or 4 bullets with all looking like the pictures in the ads. Go figure.
As to the Barnes response to your questions, their stance is one that the legal department suggests simply to prevent other folks from trying to be paid for what they consider to be 'failed' bullets. You can see where this would lead. Every hunter who made a bad shot would claim bullet failure and require compensation for the trip and the costs associated with it.
If you want to try another type of bullet for your hunting needs, I can suggest using North Fork Bullets:
http://www.northforkbullets.com/magento/bullets/
Or if you want to try another premium mono-metallic bullet then look at GS Custom:
http://gscustom.co.za/
The mono-metallic bullets are here to stay in preparation for the tree huggers getting the lead ammunition ban passed one of these days.
Best.
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
quote:Originally posted by Jim Rau
quote:Originally posted by FEENIX
Looks like very poor or no expansion ... time to look for better performing bullets.
BTW, that's a sorry response from Barnes. [:(!][xx(][V]
Actually you are wrong. There was complete expansion. The 'petals' were lost. I have only seem this happen is a tests where the velocity was high and the median 'tough'. I have used the "X" design bullets for over 30 years. I have shot elk, boo, deer, and prairie goats with them and NEVER recovered any bullets from game but got mostly one shot kills even at ranges out to 460 yds. In the 270, 06, 7 RM, 7-08, 338 WM, and 35 Whelen.
I would hazard a guess that, for what ever reason, these bullets were 'softer' than the Barnes bullets I have used.
You're right, I just a similar result from the GS custom bullet website! I should not have made that statement since I do not have hands on experience with any Barnes bullet, Safari hunts, or have recovered any bullets on any of the big game harvests I had for the last 35 years from antelope size game to elk up 600 yards. All of the bullets (mostly NPs, NABs, BTs,SSTs, IBs, A-Max, Berger VLDs, etc...) off my go hunting calibers - 7 MM STWs, .300 WMs, and .338 WMs exited through.
I guess I am just used to full exit with massive wound channels like ...
DRT, no tracking required! [}:)]
Since you say you have never used Barnes bullets, we can suffice to say, that you have not a clue about them, and from what I see, any other bullet.
At best all a bullet is, or can be is a mechanical devise(actually it is a flying holesaw). Any mechanical devise is prone to fail, at some point in its life. When I look at the picture you included, I cannot help but ask...don't you understand that that mess is also considered bullet failure? If it it is not bullet failure, then it is at best someone choosing the wrong bullet for the job.
At any rate dead is dead.
Best
All the bullets I've mentioned have not failed me. I have not lost, injured, or have to tracked any of the game I harvested throughout the years.
You're right, I might have to try the Barnes. Thanks for your candor ... I think![:p]
BTW, relax! [}:)]
Nononsense,
Love your comments ...
quote:Originally posted by nononsense
We all have opinions about the perfect bullet(s), usually with proof of performance. However, please maintain the decorum of gentlemen when discussing these types of topics.
The mono-metallic bullets are here to stay in preparation for the tree huggers getting the lead ammunition ban passed one of these days.