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win 1890 and 63 with threaded muzzles

eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
edited December 2013 in Ask the Experts
do threaded muzzles (i think for silencers) on a win model 1890.22WRF and a win model 63.22lr reduce their value? there is one threaded muzzle protector with them. both rifles are in very good condition, thanks. according to T.S. albert.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The answer is that it depends on who threaded the muzzles? If it was done by Winchester, then No, it does not reduce the value. If it was done aftermarket (and most were), then Yes, it significantly reduces the collector value.
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    eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    any way to tell if done by win? thanks bert.
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    p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 25,750 ✭
    edited November -1
    Many of them in this country came out of the UK a few years ago. If you find any British proofs on them, it doesn't hurt a bit.
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, there are clues that will tell the tale.

    For the Model 63, it will need to be a very early serial number. Production began in February of 1933, and the NFA of 1934 (June) ended the formally unrestricted ownership of silencers.

    Winchester used Maxim silencers, and the barrels were uniquely threaded for them.

    If you will post pictures of them without the protector cap installed, I can determine if they are factory threaded.
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    eastbankeastbank Member Posts: 4,215
    edited November -1
    bert,i don,t think they were threaded from the factory, the 1890 serial is # 464607A(1912) and the 63 serial # is 160441A(1956). i think all i have are two unique winchesters .22,s. if you would e-mail me i will send you pictures of the two rifles.i will e-mail you my E mail address thanks for your time, eastbank,.
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    kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Winchester would ordinarily have outside contractors thread the muzzles of barrels for silencers.
    What's next?
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    Winchester would ordinarily have outside contractors thread the muzzles of barrels for silencers.


    Really[?]... that is certainly news to me. Why do you believe that a company that employed hundreds of skilled machinists would send relatively simple work outside of the factory?
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    I have also been enlightened by a member this evening.

    Were the Maxim silencers ever a Winchester cataloged option or were the rifles simply ordered with threaded barrels and then the silencer provided by the customer?
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    kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    Winchester would ordinarily have outside contractors thread the muzzles of barrels for silencers.


    Really[?]... that is certainly news to me. Why do you believe that a company that employed hundreds of skilled machinists would send relatively simple work outside of the factory?


    I really do not think it's news to you Bert, since you have Schwing's book. It's probably one of those cases where you have forgotten more about Winchester's than most people would know! [^][;)]
    What's next?
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mark christian
    I have also been enlightened by a member this evening.

    Were the Maxim silencers ever a Winchester cataloged option or were the rifles simply ordered with threaded barrels and then the silencer provided by the customer?


    Mark,

    Winchester listed the Maxim silencers as a special order option in their catalogs.
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    kimikimi Member Posts: 44,723 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Page 288 Schwing's book on the 1890 & 1906: "Winchester did not usually thread the muzzles of its rifles in the factory but instead sent them to outside contractors to have the work performed."
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    Bert H.Bert H. Member Posts: 11,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by kimi
    I really do not think it's news to you Bert, since you have Schwing's book. It's probably one of those cases where you have forgotten more about Winchester's than most people would know! [^][;)]


    Based on my own research of the Winchester records, I do not agree with Ned's one single comment (in the caption below a picture showing a Model 1906 rifle) that "Winchester did not usually thread the muzzles of its rifles in the factory but instead sent them to outside contractors to have the work performed." The warehouse ledger records I have viewed indicate that the work was completed in house, prior to the rifle being received in the warehouse.

    From a practical standpoint, there is no reasonable explanation why Winchester would have sent the work outside of the factory.
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