In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Drill new gas escape port?
tr fox
Member Posts: 13,856
Me being unable to stop buying way low priced, cool, WWII milsurp rifles, I now have 3 Russian Mosin Nagants with several spam cans of milsurp ammo. Unlike almost every high power rifle I have ever seen, the Mosin Nagant has no gas escape exit hole(s)/port in the receiver for hot gas and debris to exit the hole, instead of into the shooter's face, in the event of a blown primer or ruptured case. I guess during the wartime frantic efforts of manufacturing defense rifles, the Russian arsenals didn't see a need to include the step of drilling a gas escape port/hole.
My question is, should I drill such a hole/port for safety purposes. And if "yes" how many holes and where located? (obviously NOT on the barrel and definitely well rearward of the chamber area where the bolt face meets the cartridge head.)
Oh, and if anyone has Mosin Nangant stripper clips, especially the aftermarket ones, and simply cannot get them to work properly, say so and I will describe a fix technique I came up with that makes them work for me quite well.
My question is, should I drill such a hole/port for safety purposes. And if "yes" how many holes and where located? (obviously NOT on the barrel and definitely well rearward of the chamber area where the bolt face meets the cartridge head.)
Oh, and if anyone has Mosin Nangant stripper clips, especially the aftermarket ones, and simply cannot get them to work properly, say so and I will describe a fix technique I came up with that makes them work for me quite well.
Comments
Here is a guy that makes headspace gauges for Mosins. You might check out his stuff. if your worried about your M-N self-destructing.
http://www.okiegauges.com/sales.html
I had some brass case Bulgarian heavy ball that had constant case failures. Most were cracked necks, a lot of cases split the entire length. Some had case head separations.
The only way I would know that one came loose in the chamber, was a little wisp of smoke that came out around the bolt head, a second or two after it was fired.
Mosins vent into the magazine well, and diffused through the bolt body. If it needed a gas vent hole, the Russians would have put one on it.
I had some brass case Bulgarian heavy ball that had constant case failures. Most were cracked necks, a lot of cases split the entire length. Some had case head separations.
The only way I would know that one came loose in the chamber, was a little wisp of smoke that came out around the bolt head, a second or two after it was fired.
Thank you sir. What with the esteem I have for your knowledge and your reply, thankfully I will no longer worry about this.
Me being unable to stop buying way low priced, cool, WWII milsurp rifles, I now have 3 Russian Mosin Nagants with several spam cans of milsurp ammo. Unlike almost every high power rifle I have ever seen, the Mosin Nagant has no gas escape exit hole(s)/port in the receiver for hot gas and debris to exit the hole, instead of into the shooter's face, in the event of a blown primer or ruptured case. I guess during the wartime frantic efforts of manufacturing defense rifles, the Russian arsenals didn't see a need to include the step of drilling a gas escape port/hole.
My question is, should I drill such a hole/port for safety purposes. And if "yes" how many holes and where located? (obviously NOT on the barrel and definitely well rearward of the chamber area where the bolt face meets the cartridge head.)
The gun design is over 100 years old. If this were really an issue, I think they'd all have these already drilled. As Trap55 says, these don't need them.
In addition to above, my understanding is that Mosin rifles themselves are pretty strong. The original Mosin design was from back in the day of "eyeball" for strength, and they're overbuilt. Obviously, you don't want to test them to failure, but I think they can handle quite a bit more pressure than the 7.62x54R rounds are supposed to generate.
quote:
Oh, and if anyone has Mosin Nangant stripper clips, especially the aftermarket ones, and simply cannot get them to work properly, say so and I will describe a fix technique I came up with that makes them work for me quite well.
Do tell. I've never really been able to get the recent manufacture clips to work right. I've even gone so far as to buy a case of the 1950s vintage Polish ammo on clips. . .just for the clips. . .but I haven't yet cracked open the tin.
quote:Originally posted by tr fox
Me being unable to stop buying way low priced, cool, WWII milsurp rifles, I now have 3 Russian Mosin Nagants with several spam cans of milsurp ammo. Unlike almost every high power rifle I have ever seen, the Mosin Nagant has no gas escape exit hole(s)/port in the receiver for hot gas and debris to exit the hole, instead of into the shooter's face, in the event of a blown primer or ruptured case. I guess during the wartime frantic efforts of manufacturing defense rifles, the Russian arsenals didn't see a need to include the step of drilling a gas escape port/hole.
My question is, should I drill such a hole/port for safety purposes. And if "yes" how many holes and where located? (obviously NOT on the barrel and definitely well rearward of the chamber area where the bolt face meets the cartridge head.)
The gun design is over 100 years old. If this were really an issue, I think they'd all have these already drilled. As Trap55 says, these don't need them.
In addition to above, my understanding is that Mosin rifles themselves are pretty strong. The original Mosin design was from back in the day of "eyeball" for strength, and they're overbuilt. Obviously, you don't want to test them to failure, but I think they can handle quite a bit more pressure than the 7.62x54R rounds are supposed to generate.
quote:
Oh, and if anyone has Mosin Nangant stripper clips, especially the aftermarket ones, and simply cannot get them to work properly, say so and I will describe a fix technique I came up with that makes them work for me quite well.
Do tell. I've never really been able to get the recent manufacture clips to work right. I've even gone so far as to buy a case of the 1950s vintage Polish ammo on clips. . .just for the clips. . .but I haven't yet cracked open the tin.
OK, beantownshootah, since it is you asking, I will share my mojo with you. But you must swear not to tell anyone else because I plan on patenting my process and if anyone wants to use it, they will have to pay me royalties
OK, OK,my dialogue got way out of hand, so just skip down to #4 and that should tell you all you need to know. If you get bored or have excess time, it is your choice to read everything down to or before #4.
I have many after market Mosin Nagant stripper clips and just a few original Russian stripper clips. For the longest time I could not get ANY of them to work very well. So naturally I did what many people tell me I do to much of. I sat around looking at the problem, thinking about the problem and playing around with the problem. You may already know all this, but here goes with a list of problems I observed that had to be overcome.
#1. 7.62x54R and its rimmed case simply does not work as well in a stripper clip as the rimless rifle cases. So from the start you have a potential problem.
#2. Even the Russian milsurp stripper clips, and especially the after market clips, do not fit snugly in the stripper clip notch cut into the rifle. I don't know if this loose fit by the designer was well thought out. But when you place a loaded stripper clip into the notch cut out, and begin to try and force the fresh cartridges into the magazine, the stripper clip moves all around. I found that unless you find a way to hold the stripper clip at the generally correct angle to the rifle frame, the stripper clip will not work properly.
#3. When the 5 rimmed 7.62R rounds are properly placed into the stripper clip, and you examine the bottom cartridge (without moving the stripper clip around and thereby moving the cartridges) the bottom cartridge should be fairly horizontal. And as you visibly move your gaze to the top cartridge, you should notice that as you move your gaze upward, the rimmed end of the cartridges become higher and higher, compared to each other, whereas the bullet end stays much lower in relation to the rimmed end. This means the cartridges are stacked properly in the stripper clip. By that I mean as you go from the top cartridge to the bottom cartridge you would find that the top cartridge has its rim on the front side of the cartridge rim below it and on and on like that. I believe, but am still experimenting, that when placing the loaded stripper clip in its frame slot, it is best to have the first cartridge (now the bottom, horizontal cartridge) be the first cartridge into the magazine.
#4. Here is when my "trick" comes in. When trying to use the stripper clip to load my Mosin Nagant, by using thumb/finger pressure, I simply could not get the clips to work except on rare occasions. As I pushed on the top cartridge, attempting to force it to force the lower cartridges into the magazine, the cartridges would quickly get out of line with each other and thereby jam up and stop the loading process. I could not help but wonder if I could somehow get some sudden, strong and directed pressure onto the top cartridge if somehow that would make things work better. I found a way to try it and it did work perfectly each and every time. All I had to do was to cut a piece of wood about 7in long by 11/16 in by 3/8 in. Load your stripper clips, making sure the rim of the second round you load goes in front of the first round, the rim of the 3rd round goes in front of the second round and on and on until loaded. Simply place the loaded stripper clip into the stripper clip slot. Doesn't matter if the stripper clip is a loose fit, tilted forward or whatever, just place it in the stripper clip slot. Now take your piece of wood and place it at the top of the stripper clip. Once the wood is in place, exert pressure on the wood to align the stripper clip towards the rear of the rifle. This should place the stripper clip in pretty much a vertical position which is needed, in my opinion, for the stripper clip to work properly. Then suddenly and strongly push down on the wood strip and all 5 rounds should instantly and smoothly go into the magazine. Note: on rare occasions, all five rounds will go into the magazine TOO WELL. And you will find you cannot close the bolt on the now full magazine. In that case, simply push down on the already loaded top cartridge, the one blocking you from losing the bolt, push down enough to allow you to close the bolt. Close the bolt totally and completely. At that point you can then operate the bolt and rifle normally. I don't like this unwanted feature, but it doesn't happen often and it can be cured in seconds if you understand what is going on. I also don't like having to add "equipment" (the wooden stick) to the stripper clip loading process. But using that stick is a hell of a lot faster than loading one round at a time or fumbling with your thumb with stripper clips that are not going to work for you anyway. BTW, after awhile the wood develops splinters so I am going to buy some cheap paint brushes that are about the right size, cut off everything but the polymer handle of the paint brush and use that instead. Let me know if anybody likes this idea and if it works for them. Or if they have a better solution.
When done right, the interrupter ejects the clip.
You can't load stripper clips into a Mosin the same way you do a Mauser, because the case is rimmed. You insert the clip, then grab the top round, and push down with your thumb on the cartridge base.
When done right, the interrupter ejects the clip.
I have tried it that way and I guess I have thin skin or just don't like to feel pain each time I stripper clip load a rifle so I don't even try that anymore. Plus, as near as I can tell, it doesn't actually matter which end of the stripper clip goes first into the magazine where as with your method I believe there is a correct end and an incorrect end.
update: Trapp55, also I believe the loading procedure you describe will only work with true milsurp stripper clips. Maybe only the Russian ones but perhaps other milsupr ones as well. I believe that few if any of the new, aftermarket stripper clips will work with your described method. With my method, even though it involves the extra step of using the wooden rod, my method works with ALL Mosin Nagant stripper clips. To me that is a a success story. Of course there will probably the usual suspects here that will come along to complain, moan, criticize, etc. but what the hell.
quote:Originally posted by TRAP55
You can't load stripper clips into a Mosin the same way you do a Mauser, because the case is rimmed. You insert the clip, then grab the top round, and push down with your thumb on the cartridge base.
When done right, the interrupter ejects the clip.
I have tried it that way and I guess I have thin skin or just don't like to feel pain each time I stripper clip load a rifle so I don't even try that anymore. Plus, as near as I can tell, it doesn't actually matter which end of the stripper clip goes first into the magazine where as with your method I believe there is a correct end and an incorrect end.
update: Trapp55, also I believe the loading procedure you describe will only work with true milsurp stripper clips. Maybe only the Russian ones but perhaps other milsupr ones as well. I believe that few if any of the new, aftermarket stripper clips will work with your described method. With my method, even though it involves the extra step of using the wooden rod, my method works with ALL Mosin Nagant stripper clips. To me that is a a success story. Of course there will probably the usual suspects here that will come along to complain, moan, criticize, etc. but what the hell.
Simple fix?
Wear gloves.
That's what we did in the Army loading all those Aluminum mags with stripper clips.
By the way thanks for the email. Merry Christmas to you too you jerk.
"
Dec 25 at 9:33 PM
Hello drobs
You received the following message from: tr fox (retrosdad@aol.com)
At: http://forums.GunBroker.com/
Hey Drobs, a question for you. In one of your posts, you mentioned the word "idiot" in general terms. Exactly which "idiot" were you referring to? If it is me, then let me ask you another question. Who is the real idiot (or regarding you, * hole)? Someone who you claim is an idiot or someone like you who continues to read and comment on that idiots post. Just wondering."
No Part II as Part I was more than enough.