1903 A4 scopes

Geri

Gibbs A4 rifles come with 2.5 power weaver type scopes, but a korean war vet states that he was sure the A4; in korea has 4 or 6 power scopes as optics. Were different power scopes used over a period of years? Thanks.

rufe-snow

Maybe he is confusing it with the Unertl 8X, the Marines used? Only other scope supposedly used were the Lyman Alaskan's, which were also 2.5 power.




EDIT #1,


Show him this photo of a Marine sniper with a Unertl. See if he recognizes it? The Lyman scopes used on the A4's, were much different in size and apparence.







EDIT #2,

In my experience the Marines and the Army get along like throwing a can of gas on a fire. I don't see the Marines caring about what was in a Army manual, regarding Lyman scopes. If they issued Unertl scopes for their 03's.

Geri

Maybe. He was a marine.

nmyers

He's probably correct.

The Litschert device increased the magnification of the WW2-era Weaver 330 series scopes to 6X, & some of these may have been used in Korea. However, most A4 rifles used in Korea had the M84 scope or the Lyman Alaskan-series scopes (including the M81 & M82).

Neal

EDIT: It's unlikely that any Marines used the 03 sniper rifle in Korean. By then, most snipers were using the M1C or M1D rifle (with M84 or Lyman Alaskan series scope). There were also several commercial rifles & various other scopes in use.

richarda

M84 may have been assumed by some to be 4x because of its enlarged objective bell.

cbyerly

Army Tech Manual TM-9-2200 dated April 1949. Listed only the M73B1 for this rifle. No other scopes are mentioned or listed.

317wc

I have a book here, "USMC Scout Sniper, WWII and Korea" that states that in late 1951 the Marine Corps Equipment Board recommended that;
(1) M1903A1 now in use and in stock as snipers rifles be declared limited standard
(2)Unertl 8x telescope be declared obsolete
(3)Unertl mounts for the above telescopes be declared obsolete
(4) M1C with telescope, cheek-pad and flash-hider, be standardized for the Marine Corps.

So certainly there would be 1903A1s in service all throughout the war, usually with the 8x Unertl but occasionally equipped with Lyman or * target scope. Yes they were being phased out at this time but demand for sniping rifles was high, so remaining stocks of suitable guns were put into service.

Interestingly, the M70 Winchester was also considered during a 1951 review of sniping equipment, conducted by the USMC Equipment Board in Quantico, but was rejected, and would not see authorized combat use until the US intervention in Vietnam in 1965.




Neal

EDIT: It's unlikely that any Marines used the 03 sniper rifle in Korean. By then, most snipers were using the M1C or M1D rifle (with M84 or Lyman Alaskan series scope). There were also several commercial rifles & various other scopes in use.
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v35

The only scopes TO&E for the A4 were M82, Lyman Alaskan and the Weaver 330.
The A4 had a Redfield Junior mount that couldn't permit mounting a Unertl with it's external adjustments.
Note the Marine 03 with barrel mounted rear sight and scope block and rounded bolt shank.
The A4 had a differently shaped bolt handle and rear sight mounting was on the rear receiver ring, same as on the A-3.
Power for the A4 and M1 scopes was about 2 1/2X though the M84 also used on the Garand may have been 4X, I forget, it's been 50 years.

cbyerly

Hello v35. Which tech manual did you get your information from?

v35

707th Ordnance Bn, 7th Div., 8th Army 1953 -54 Yonchon &Tungduchon, Korea.
I operated the small arms section & taught small arms at the 8th army school to 7th Div.
Company armorers. We had A-4s & the several Garand sniper versions as well as the Snooperscope carbines.
I specifically recall the latest scope for the G&H M1 mount was not TO&E for the A-4.