Yet OTHER H & R Topper Questions!

hermiem

I FINALLY was able to locate, purchase and replace all of the springs and/or wornout parts for the mechanisims for this firearm. I took me a while but I FINALLY figured out how to reassemble the complete gun! (Thank the Lord for YouTube videos!)

This question is about the piece's "bluing." The barrel, forestock hardware and trigger guard are all "blued." However, the frame and trigger appear to be either stainless, "in-the-white" or possibly "color case-hardened." There were so many of these things made over the years that I've seen pics/vids of the whole gun being blued, stainless or "color case-hardened" OR some combination there-of. I've contacted H & R on this but have not yet had a reply. If anybody has any input regarding this I'd greatly appreciate it!

I do want to thank everyone for the replies on the previous 2 posts for this firearm. This one is turning into somewhat of a "challenge" - LOL?!?! For instance - my previous posts indicate that it is a Model M - 48 Topper. (All parts have the identical serial #.) However, the 4 or 5 online places I researched revealed that the non-clamature in the schematics were significantly different than what was on the piece. BY ACCIDENT I found what appears to be the CORRECT schematic under their model M - 47?!?! The frame is identified as an M - 48 - go figure? I've heard several different reasonings for this that basically boil down to somebody making a mistake in the production run between the M - 47 and M - 48 by improperly identifying the M - 48 model run too early. Somebody told me it was worth more money? If anybody has any info on this I'd also really like to know about it. I've emailed H & R several weeks ago but have yet to have a response.

Best Regards,

Mike

rufe-snow

Color case hardening is a older more labor intensive, expensive process. Commonly used when hourly wages were cheap compared to machine time.

Over time and much use the case hardening tends to fade. If it is even case hardening in the first place. Since the 60's phony case hardening using dyes and heat have become the norm. On less expensive firearms.

With something like your rifle, I wouldn't even worry about it. Take it to a local gunsmith, and have it refinished. Definitely wouldn't be putting big bucks in a Topper, having the receiver recasehardened.

charliemeyer007

I'm glad you got it back together and operational. I have never seen a stainless steel one. Maybe Bubba plated it or buffed it and did a phosphate type finish. I think I have seen blued frames, most were "color case hardened", though some lack much color.

I drilled to small holes under the butt plate to carry the slave pins and keep 2 loaded rounds plus some stuff in the bolt hole.

Added: I added "" to the color case hardened above because I'm not exactly sure of their exact process. I do know that it doesn't easily wipe off like some of today's applied fake color case hardened finish.

I think the purple comes from the nickel in the steel when you try and hot salt blue.

Cheechako

What rufe-snow said.

Weren't the Topper frames made from cast steel and the color added with heat and chemicals rather than the traditional color case-hardening? Was there any "case" to them at all?

Ray

mrs102

My H&R's are cast steel (iron). I needed one refinished. The smith I was using at that time told me conventional dip tank bluing would leave the metal purple and unevenly colored. He did a fuming process which left a black finish and looks OK.

H&R and New England Firearms, if I remember correctly, were purchased by a large holding company and they were discontinuing technical support for the older manufactured items, such as fitting barrels, etc. That may explain the lack of response to email inquiries.

hermiem

Guys,

As always thanks for all the responses! Based on your responses so far I'm going with the cast frame with cheap case hardening applied. I'm taking it to a gunsmith for his opinion on what to do with it.

Best Regards,

Mike




quote:Originally posted by hermiem
I FINALLY was able to locate, purchase and replace all of the springs and/or wornout parts for the mechanisims for this firearm. I took me a while but I FINALLY figured out how to reassemble the complete gun! (Thank the Lord for YouTube videos!)

This question is about the piece's "bluing." The barrel, forestock hardware and trigger guard are all "blued." However, the frame and trigger appear to be either stainless, "in-the-white" or possibly "color case-hardened." There were so many of these things made over the years that I've seen pics/vids of the whole gun being blued, stainless or "color case-hardened" OR some combination there-of. I've contacted H & R on this but have not yet had a reply. If anybody has any input regarding this I'd greatly appreciate it!

I do want to thank everyone for the replies on the previous 2 posts for this firearm. This one is turning into somewhat of a "challenge" - LOL?!?! For instance - my previous posts indicate that it is a Model M - 48 Topper. (All parts have the identical serial #.) However, the 4 or 5 online places I researched revealed that the non-clamature in the schematics were significantly different than what was on the piece. BY ACCIDENT I found what appears to be the CORRECT schematic under their model M - 47?!?! The frame is identified as an M - 48 - go figure? I've heard several different reasonings for this that basically boil down to somebody making a mistake in the production run between the M - 47 and M - 48 by improperly identifying the M - 48 model run too early. Somebody told me it was worth more money? If anybody has any info on this I'd also really like to know about it. I've emailed H & R several weeks ago but have yet to have a response.

Best Regards,

Mike

gartman

The "Bluebook" lists a Topper model with chrome finish. I recall my cousin having a .410 Topper with a bright plated receiver, blue barrel, and the wood was painted black.