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8mm mauser?????
hillbille
Member Posts: 14,458 ✭✭✭✭
I have a 8mm mauser that my dad brought back from WWII, and my uncle who was a gunsmith sporterized. I know it has no real value as military piece but I have hunted with it for the last 20+ years.
I reload for it and use 220 grain bullets, the do have some severe knockdown. My newest dilemna is the woods where I hunt are being timbered this spring. I will now be offered shots over 200-300 yards. Before I was limited to about 100.
I hate to buy a new rifle and have an 30-06 but my son has sort of taken it over. I was wondering if the 8mm would be good for the longer ranges. I just loaded up some 170 grain bullets and am waiting for the weather to warm up before I try them at a little longer range. Do any of you'all have any experience at the longer ranges with an 8mm?
I reload for it and use 220 grain bullets, the do have some severe knockdown. My newest dilemna is the woods where I hunt are being timbered this spring. I will now be offered shots over 200-300 yards. Before I was limited to about 100.
I hate to buy a new rifle and have an 30-06 but my son has sort of taken it over. I was wondering if the 8mm would be good for the longer ranges. I just loaded up some 170 grain bullets and am waiting for the weather to warm up before I try them at a little longer range. Do any of you'all have any experience at the longer ranges with an 8mm?
Comments
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator
http://bisonballistics.com/point_mass_calculations/new
When shooting at long ranges, I select bullets with a high BC.
Most Mil Mausers are sighted in around 300yds. I have travelled all through Europe in the 80s. 8mm is one of the most popular over there.
If you get the right load in the Mauser it will kick the 30-06 butt and most WW2 combat vets will tell you that
Yeah, but with the right load, the '06 will kick the 8x57 butt.[;)]
Back after WWII when I just starting my illustrious big-game hunting career, sporterized M98s and the 8x57 cartridge were very common. My brother and I used that combination, with our own handloads, to hunt everything in NM, AZ, CO, and UT. That includes antelope and you didn't get many 100 yard shots at them.
Handloading is the key. Lots of very good bullets in the 175 grain weight area to choose from.
ray
my $.02 worth [:D]
This is my favorite 8x57 bullet.
That said, I have killed many deer and several elk - the last at 310 yards with the Norma 196 grain factory load at some 2500 fps.
Plenty of people use 8mm to hunt at 200-300 yards, and as mentioned, this is still one of the most popular cartridges for that in Europe today (including for elk). GOOD factory loads for 8mm basically replicate 30-06 ballistics.
If you're otherwise comfortable hunting at that distance, and have familiarized yourself with the trajectory here, I don't see why you'd have any issue or problem with this.
300 yards might as well be RIGHT NEXT DOOR !
After WW II the Ordnance Department was developing a new generation of lighter rifles and ammunition. One of the studies they undertook was the actual, real-life, effectiveness of the infantry rifle in combat. The results shattered some of the traditional perceived myths. One survey showed that almost all rifle hits recorded had occured at less than 75 yards. Another found that 80% of effective rifle and LMG fire had been at ranges under 200 yards with a full 90% under 300 yards. Hit probability at ranges exceeding 300 yards were "negligible".
While I'm sure it was no fun being shot at from any distance, your chances of surviving at 300 yards were very good.
EDIT: Oops, I bet you're using the new SST boattail....I sold my 8x57 a while back.
quote:Originally posted by Cheechako
Actually, just the opposite is true.
After WW II the Ordnance Department was developing a new generation of lighter rifles and ammunition. One of the studies they undertook was the actual, real-life, effectiveness of the infantry rifle in combat. The results shattered some of the traditional perceived myths. One survey showed that almost all rifle hits recorded had occured at less than 75 yards. Another found that 80% of effective rifle and LMG fire had been at ranges under 200 yards with a full 90% under 300 yards. Hit probability at ranges exceeding 300 yards were "negligible".
While I'm sure it was no fun being shot at from any distance, your chances of surviving at 300 yards were very good.
Not sure how you can derive the survival ratio from the hit ratio, described above. Obviously, if someone is shooting at you, the further away you are the better, but in general, the chance of you surviving "any" bullet strike in combat is measureable, given that many/most don't hit vital areas.
Yes, during GENERAL COMBAT (which, remember was conducted by soldiers with relatively little marksmanship training, using iron sights, against potentially moving, covered and/or partially armored targets) the overwhelming majority of hits occur at short distances. So as a matter of practice, most soldiers don't "need" the ability to do serious damage with rifles at 300+ yards.
But hunting is a different "game" altogether. The better military analogy would be to sniping, where average shot distance is not only much longer, but scoped rifles are used against static targets. In that scenario, hit percentages are much higher. For military snipers lethal shot percentage at 300 yards probably approaches 75%.
On 8mm Mauser, its going to depend on which exact bullet, and how its loaded, but as one example, at 300 yards a fully loaded 200 grain 8mm Mauser bullet will still be going around 1800 fps (see below).
Now compare to a "heavy" 170 grain 30/30 round, which does about 2200 fps. . .AT THE MUZZLE. . .and you'll see that the 8mm packs plenty of punch at 300 yards.
Trust me, you **DO NOT** want to get by one of these at 300 yards, and if you did, you'd be pretty unhappy. . .(assuming you were still conscious. . .which you probably wouldn't be for long, assuming a torso hit).
As another comparison, a 200 grain .44 magnum revolver bullet "only" gets 1500 fps at the muzzle, meaning the 8mm packs 20% more power at 300 yards than the .44 at point blank.
Edit: Again, the American loads are quite wussy compared to the European loads, which load up to the rounds full potential. Remington claims 1330 fps for its 170 grain soft point bullet at 300 yards. Federal claims 1620 fps for its 170 grain hunting round at 300 yards. That puts the American loads at roughly the power of a 30/30.
Meanwhile Norma claims 1832 ft/sec for its 196 grain bullet at 300 meters, putting this fully into the class of a .30-06.
Bottom line, if you want to "go big" with 8mm, either buy European ammo, or load your own.
8mm Mauser and 8x57mmJS Mauser are the commercial designations. 7.9x57J and 7.9x57JS are the military designations. So both are correct, technically or otherwise.