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Bannerman Rolling Block??

mazo kidmazo kid Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
edited February 2003 in Ask the Experts
I have a Remington marked RB rifle, .50-70, in MINT bright condition. Perhaps mint is not the right term as it has been shot; however it is in nearly as new shape. Instead of the usual "U" mark on the bbl. bands, there is a "B". The action is of the NY State type, going to half cock when breech block is closed. OK experts, is this a Bannerman gun? What can you tell me about it, PLEASE?? Thanks. Emery
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is it possible to give the barrel length and any/all markings, inspection stamps, cartouches etc. on your Rolling Block? That will be a great help in identifying it.
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    Iroquois ScoutIroquois Scout Member Posts: 930 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rufe-Snow is right, we could use a little more information. Is your rifle finished bright or is it blued? I can tell you that the letter "B" is a New York state inspector's mark and appears on the barrel bands, barrel and receiver. These rifles also have the inspector's cartouche "H B H" on the left side of the barrel just in front of the receiver. The same letters appear in a banner type cartouche on the left side of the buttstock. The hammer should be the type with the very high spur.
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    mazo kidmazo kid Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, I've just come from the basement where I went over the rifle with a magnifying glass. Here's what I found: 36" bbl., rear bbl. band stamped "U", 2 forward bands stamped "B", rear of bbl on left stamped "B", 3 line Remington tang markings, last patent date March 18, 1874. Except for the blued rear sight, all other metal is finished bright. The hammer and breechblock have the "shield" shaped crosshatching and the thumb piece for the breechblock extends to the right side. There are NO cartouches, none on the receiver nor the stock. These are the ONLY markings on the rifle. Thanks for the interest. This has been bugging me ever since I got the rifle. It seems that I remember reading some time ago about Bannerman building guns from surplus parts in the 50s or so, but can't seem to find that article. Maybe in the American Rifleman? Thanks again. Emery
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    rufe-snowrufe-snow Member Posts: 18,650 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Comparing your description to what "Flayderman" says in his book,I would have to say you have a "parts gun". He seems quite definitive in his description of the "inspectors marks" on the stock and the "blued" finish of the "New York State Contract Rolling Blocks".
    Who and when assembled this rifle from surplus "New York State Contract" parts, I can't answer?
    I believe Bannerman was active in selling this type of rifle on the surplus market for at least a fifty year period, spanning the late 19th to early 20th century.
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    captkirk3@dslextreme.comcaptkirk3@dslextreme.com Member Posts: 3,804
    edited November -1
    Would you tell us exactly what the Tang Markings Say.......You say 3 lines....But its crucial to know just what it says....
    Also...Discribe the Barrel...Is it Round? Octagon, or Half Round and Half Octagon.....?

    Captain Kirk, Tech Staff
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    Iroquois ScoutIroquois Scout Member Posts: 930 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have to agree with Rufe-Snow on this one, I also think that this rifle has been worked over. The lower band sounds like it is from a Remington 1872 Navy rifle. The lack of the "H B H" cartouche means to me that the butt stock may have been refinished or replaced, also the lack of the cartouche on the barrel would mean to me that the barrel has been over cleaned. These rifles came from Remington with blued barrels and bands, however, I have seen a number of New York State rifles in the white. I believe that the finish was removed by the State Troops at some time during the use of the rifle. I have also seen these rifles in the original blue, so not all rifles were done. These rifles were used from 1872-1898 which is quite a long time and anything was bound to happen to them. Another thing is the rear sight looks like it is on the barrel backwards with the high steps of the base toward the receiver rather then toward the muzzle,but, that is the correct position. Best of luck, Scout
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    DaveFDaveF Member Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I can jump into this one, I also have a Remington RB .50-70 which I always thought was a NY State rifle. It is finished in the white with a 36" barrel, has the half-cock feature, the right angled thumb piece and a last patent date on the tang of Nov. 7, 1871. The barrel bands are all marked B on the left side, but the rear band is marked S on the right side, the middle P and the front band B. Both sling loops are marked with a patent date of Feb. 11, 1866. The left rear of the barrel is marked S, the right rear is marked sideways P, and the left receiver side is stamped R. It has an RPB cartouche on the left side, HSH and SNY cartouches on the right side, and the bottom of both butt-stock and fore-stock have a small H stamp. The end of the clearing rod is stamped R, and the sight looks like it is on backwards. Do you think this is the genuine thing? Thanks in advance, DaveF.
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    Iroquois ScoutIroquois Scout Member Posts: 930 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello Dave,
    Yes, I think that your rifle is genuine. I admit that Iam not familiar with the "S" and "P" markings or the "RPB" cartouche, but, think that they are genuine. I wonder if the "HSH" cartouch is not in reality "HBH". The "SNY" is of course "State of New York". The patent dates on the sling swivels is a Remington patent for the swivels. Look closely at the swivels and you will see what looks like a detent or small pin, this is what was patented. It keeps the swivel loop from slideing back and forth in the swivel lug. Hope that this is of some help to you. Scout
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    mazo kidmazo kid Member Posts: 648 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK.....the bbl is tapered round, the sight is mounted correctly, the front swivel has the patent marking, rear does not. Tang markings are as follows: 1st line: E. Remington & Sons Ilion NY USA
    2nd line: Pat. May 3rd 1864 May7th June 11th Nov 12th Dec 24th 1872
    3rd line: Dec 31st 1872 Sept 9th 1873 Jan 12th March 18th 1874
    While I do not dispute this may be a parts gun, I DO NOT believe it to have been sanded or refinished as the wood stands a tad proud of the metal in many places and all parts appear new. I don't know how to post photos on this site, but if anyone is interested, contact me by email and I will send pictures, hopefully will be of some help. Incidentally, the bayonet that came with the rifle is also unmarked and finished in the white. emstluka@itis.com Emery
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