In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Options
Winchester Model 1873 in 38 WCF
antne56
Member Posts: 36 ✭✭
Hi All,
After many years of searching I just bought my Dream rifle.
A Winchester 1873 in 38 Caliber.
The rifle was purchased from an 81 year old gentlemen who told me it was his fathers.
The bluing on the receiver is almost gone. Barrel and magazine tube have more left.
The bore looks to be clean with decent rifling still visible.
The stock is in very nice condition.
I have researched the serial number and found it to be a 1888 build.
All I have done to the rifle is wiped the metal with Rem oil and cleaned the wood with murphys oil then applied Howards feed and wax.
I have inserted pictures below and would like to hear your ideas of condition and originality of the rifle.
Also do you feel it is beneficial to invest in the Cody Museum data?
Thanks for your input.
Tony
After many years of searching I just bought my Dream rifle.
A Winchester 1873 in 38 Caliber.
The rifle was purchased from an 81 year old gentlemen who told me it was his fathers.
The bluing on the receiver is almost gone. Barrel and magazine tube have more left.
The bore looks to be clean with decent rifling still visible.
The stock is in very nice condition.
I have researched the serial number and found it to be a 1888 build.
All I have done to the rifle is wiped the metal with Rem oil and cleaned the wood with murphys oil then applied Howards feed and wax.
I have inserted pictures below and would like to hear your ideas of condition and originality of the rifle.
Also do you feel it is beneficial to invest in the Cody Museum data?
Thanks for your input.
Tony
Comments
The DOM is March of 1887 versus 1888.
The gray finish had me wondering whether or not it was cleaned sometime in the past. I noticed that the loading gate seemed to still have the original finish versus the receivers lighter finish.
In your opinion what would be the best way to approach this?
I know that re-blueing would take away from its originality.
But if the cleaning has already done that would it matter.
Bert H.
When i looked up the serial number on the Winchester Website it showed the DOM as 1888.
Is there another source for that info ?
USN_Airdale
thanks, yes i can't put it down, Beautiful piece of history.
Thanks all for your input.
Tony
I copied the NRA condition standards below.
In your opinion what grade would you feel this rifle falls into?
Thanks
NRA ANTIQUE FIREARM CONDITIONS STANDARDS:
FACTORY NEW: All original parts; 100% original finish; in perfect condition in every respect, inside and out.
EXCELLENT: All original parts; over 80% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; unmarred wood; fine bore.
FINE: All original parts; over 30% original finish; sharp lettering, numerals and design on metal and wood; minor marks in wood; good bore.
VERY GOOD: All original parts; none to 30% original finish; original metal surfaces smooth with all edges sharp; clear lettering, numerals and design on metal; wood slightly scratched or
bruised; bore disregarded for collectors firearms.
GOOD: Some minor replacement parts; metal smoothly rusted or lightly pitted in places, cleaned or re-blued; principal letters, numerals and design on metal legible; wood refinished, scratched bruised or minor cracks repaired; in good working order.
FAIR: Some major parts replaced; minor replacement parts may be required; metal rusted, may be lightly pitted all over, vigorously cleaned or re-blued; rounded edges of metal and wood; principal lettering, numerals and design on metal partly obliterated; wood scratched, bruised, cracked or repaired where broken; in fair working order or can be easily repaired and placed in working order.
POOR: Major and minor parts replaced; major replacement parts required and extensive restoration needed; metal deeply pitted; principal lettering, numerals and design obliterated, wood badly scratched, bruised, cracked or broken; mechanically inoperative; generally undesirable as a collector's firearm.
quote:Bert H.
When i looked up the serial number on the Winchester Website it showed the DOM as 1888.
Is there another source for that info ?
Yes, there is another source, that is more accurate, and that would be Bert. Most of us here on this forum, recognize him as "Mr. Winchester". Bert is a devout student of the Winchester products, and spends many hours each year, with his face burried in the factory ledger's(them poor pages[:D]), which are now located at the BBHC, in Cody. He has written, and co-authored at least two books that I know of, and is among the world's ELITE, when it comes to Winchester knowledge, and collecting.
I will strongly suggest, that you do get the letter from BBHC on your rifle.
Best
EDIT 1
Oh, and yes...Bert will bend over backwards to help anyone find information on anything that says Winchester, and give good guidance for L.C. Smith's(how far apart do you put them, Bert, for maximum growth[^]).
rufe-snow:
The gray finish had me wondering whether or not it was cleaned sometime in the past. I noticed that the loading gate seemed to still have the original finish versus the receivers lighter finish.
In your opinion what would be the best way to approach this?
I know that re-blueing would take away from its originality.
But if the cleaning has already done that would it matter.
In the condition it's in now, it stands out like a sore thumb, in a bad way. Comparing the patina on the butt plate which appears original and correct to me, and that on the receiver really detracts from the rifles overall appearance.
I would have a professional restorer refinish it. A restorer doesn't just do commercial reblueing like a gunsmith. But endeavors to put the firearm back into as close to factory original condition as possible.
EDIT #1, No offense Burt. But being the way it has been "cleaned", can't agree with your assessment.
At most, to my way of thinking it would grade out as Antique "Good", at best. Although it looks real nice, doubtful to me any knowledgeable collector would touch it with a 10 foot pole. Unless he could buy it cheap enough, and he could have it restored and still come out ahead on it.
rufe-snow:
The gray finish had me wondering whether or not it was cleaned sometime in the past. I noticed that the loading gate seemed to still have the original finish versus the receivers lighter finish.
In your opinion what would be the best way to approach this?
I know that re-blueing would take away from its originality.
But if the cleaning has already done that would it matter.
Bert H.
When i looked up the serial number on the Winchester Website it showed the DOM as 1888.
Is there another source for that info ?
Thanks all for your input.
Tony
I would never recommend "refinishing" it. It would be a reasonable candidate for a proper "restoration", but that costs a fair chunk of $$$$. For a plain Jane sporting rifle such ad this one, I personally would not spend the money to have it restored.
What specific website did you use to come up with the 1888 DOM? In answer to your question, I use the actual historical factory records, which are at the Cody Firearms Museum.
In regards to the graded condition, it falls squarely in the Very Good category.
What specific website did you use to come up with the 1888 DOM? In answer to your question, I use the actual historical factory records, which are at the Cody Firearms Museum.
In regards to the graded condition, it falls squarely in the Very Good category.
Hi Bert,
i purchased the rifle with the intent to shoot it,but also with the long term idea of keeping it in the family to hand down to my children or grandchildren.
At this time i can't afford to do a proper restore , but possibly in the future who knows.
I will as some advised enjoy and shoot my new rifle.
The Website i Found the DOM is linked below.
http://oldguns.net/sn_php/winmods.htm
But i like your date better, it being 100 years from my Eldest daughters month and year of birth.
As far as the condition i'm happy to hear the Very Good rating.
I sincerely appreciate yours and the others responders opinions and priceless information.
thanks to all,
Bert,
One more question , Would you Recommend purchasing the Winchester book by George Madis as a good source of info ?
Thanks,
Tony
I realize that I am not Bert, but you need to know, that the books that Bert has authored, and co-authored, are much more accurate, than that of George Madis. Actually, that is part of the reason for these new books. Berts knowledge, and writtings, way surpass that of George Madis. Even the Blue Book, which for years, used the Madis information, which in some cases is up to 5 years off, as the gospel. They have realized their erroneous ways, and have started to change some things.
There are a couple of sticky topics at the top of the Experts forum, written by Bert, and Mr. Kennedy. You need to read them. Some of the records that Bert has access to, were not available for the days of George Madis research, so he(George) basically, took a big SWAG at it.
I was not being sarcastic in the least bit, when I said, that Bert ranks among the ELITE of the Winchester guru's in the world.
Best
Tony,
I realize that I am not Bert, but you need to know, that the books that Bert has authored, and co-authored, are much more accurate, than that of George Madis. Actually, that is part of the reason for these new books. Berts knowledge, and writtings, way surpass that of George Madis. Even the Blue Book, which for years, used the Madis information, which in some cases is up to 5 years off, as the gospel. They have realized their erroneous ways, and have started to change some things.
There are a couple of sticky topics at the top of the Experts forum, written by Bert, and Mr. Kennedy. You need to read them. Some of the records that Bert has access to, were not available for the days of George Madis research, so he(George) basically, took a big SWAG at it.
I was not being sarcastic in the least bit, when I said, that Bert ranks among the ELITE of the Winchester guru's in the world.
Best
I will be sure to read the Stickys that Bert and Mr Kennedy have written.
Thanks again for the info.
Tony
Sharp machined edges and corners along with little if any pitting create value in my eyes.I will sacrifice historic rust.
As rust never sleeps, it shouldn't remain on any gun.
I would have it restored professionally and until then have it coated with hard wax.
I believe the baseplate, lever and maybe also the action frame were color case hardened. I wouldn't blue formerly case hardened parts.