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Street Sweeper

fragmentsfragments Member Posts: 407 ✭✭✭
edited June 2003 in Ask the Experts
What would be a fair price for a street sweeper. I know a person that has a friend that wants to sell his. I would be sure to do it the legal way. So what would be the going price for a good condition sweeper?

Comments

  • fragmentsfragments Member Posts: 407 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why is it, when I do a search on a subject, the first several topics come up a street sweeper. Thanks. I also found a post that I posted, but had someone elses name to it. Go figure.
  • fragmentsfragments Member Posts: 407 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been offered a street sweeper at the unheard of price of $150.00. I kinda know the guy so it's not a trap or anything like that. After doing a search I've got my doubts about the legality of owning this thing. What do you guys say? There is no paper work associated with it as the seller has had it since new and and all paperwork, box etc. has been misplaced!
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    Our "servants" at the BATF re-classified the Streetsweeper and any of its variants as a "destructive device."

    If it wasn't registered during the amnesty period, and I must presume it wasn't, since you say there is no paperwork, then it is a contraband item, and any price is too high.

    That is, unless you want to strip it for saleable parts and scrap the frame.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
  • fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is a remarkable price...unheard of even I would agree.

    The "Street Sweeper" and the "Spas 25?" were both required to be registered with the BATF a couple of years ago even though they did not initially fall in to the NFA category of "destructive devices" or whatever they are referred to.

    Anyway, there was a deadline for registration. If your seller had possesion of this and did not comply, he has an illegal weapon and may be subject to arrest/fines/imprisonment...maybe all of the above.

    If he aquired it afterwards (after the deadline), he would have had to purchase it in compliance with the applicable laws for such a weapon.

    If he bought it from someone person-to-person after the registration deadline and it was never registered...well you can see where this is going I'm sure.

    These are illegal in some states and municipalities...period...MA being one of them.

    It seems suspicious to me! I would be concerned with this guy just trying to unload something he feels uncomfortable having around anymore.

    I'm by far not an expert on this class of weapons, but I am confident I have given you the gist of the matter with the Street Sweeper.

    ***I did it again nunn...posted a reply after someone did a good job addressing it already. I have to learn to compose/type/post faster.
  • fragmentsfragments Member Posts: 407 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you gentlemen!! I will inform the seller and respectifully decline his GENEROUS offer!!!!
  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What is a Spas 25? I have heard of a SPAS-12 and a SPAS-15, but never a Spas 25 (SPAS-25?). Is this a mistake in nomeclature or a rare variation?
  • fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Judge, meant to say SPAS 15...knew it wasn't the 12. Just now got off my lazy butt and looked it up. I thought I might get away with putting the "?" after it since I couldn't remember the model for sure. There is not a SPAS 25.

    I had a rough day today and wasn't in the mood for getting in to the books at the time. I have read your AR-15 postings and agree with the point you make regarding proper identification, etc. Thanks for keeping us on our toes and off our butts!
  • fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fragments, I can't speak for this seller about how to explain his potential situation with this weapon, and his motives for selling it of course. If he has indeed have gotten himself in to this situation, it could have been done so innocently.

    The point I'm making is; how are people supposed to know about the law changing all of a sudden and now being responsible for registering something you aquired legally when you bought it years ago.

    Some people buy guns and forget about them for awhile, don't read gun magazines, etc. How are you to know? I don't own a Street Sweeper, but I just happened to read a short notice in American Rifleman (NRA publication) a few years ago that this was going on. This is how I became aware of it. If I had put the magazine away and not read it, I wouldn't know either.

    This guy may have innocently missed his opportunity during the amnesty period. What he should do now, I can't say. I think in some of these cases "ignorance" can be a legitimate defense...regardless of what they say about "it being no excuse".

    He may have other options (legal options) than what he is trying to do now...although it may be his offering it to forfeiture, instead of trying to recover $150 (which is definetly not nearly enough money to risk the consequences).

    If I were him I would talk to an attorney that is familiar with firearm laws before doing anything though.
  • JiggaJigga Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey guys the Spas 15 did not become a Destructive Device. They are still classified as regular firearms. As for Fragments, the Streesweeper in question if not registered better not have a barrel on it. Or have a barrel for it stored at the same location as the receiver. If it is just a barreless rec. then it is no problem because it would then be classified as inoperatable. You can no longer register them with the BATF. Just a few items to add to the post. Thanks
  • fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jigga, the article in American Rifleman said it was going to be re-classified as such along with the Street Sweeper. What happenned?

    That would be good news. If I have an extra $5K someday I might like to have one!
  • mpolansmpolans Member Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First, I'm not an attorney, this is not meant to be relied on as legal advice and you should definitely get a lawyer licensed to practice in your area if you remotely think you're in legal trouble rather consulting a bunch of yahoos on a internet discussion forum.

    Jigga, et al, referred to the word "inoperable" when he probably meant to say "unserviceable firearm." Title 26, Section 5845(h) defines this as
    "a firearm which is incapable of discharging a shot by means of an explosive AND INCAPABLE OF BEING READILY RESTORED TO A FIRING CONDITION" (emphasis added).

    Based on this, just taking the barrel of isn't going to cut it. You ever wonder why in Shotgun News, the Uzi receivers they sell are torched in half, rather than just being barrel-less?
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mpolans is on the money. Under Title 18, US Code, Section 921 (a) (3), a firearm frame or receiver is considered to be a "firearm" under Federal firearms law.

    fort knox, the Secretary of the Treasury announced on February 28, 1994, that the Striker-12, USAS-12, and the Streetsweeper were being classified as "destructive devices". On February 9, 2001, ATF published a ruling that established the final May 1, 2001 deadline for registration. All FFL & C&R holders were notified in writing, and ads were placed in several gun magazines. I don't know what, more than that, they could have done. In any cases, no additional guns have been added to that group.

    Neal
  • mpolansmpolans Member Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks nmyers! However, it should be noted that there are several definitions of "firearm" throughout Federal law depending on what section you're looking at. For example, the National Firearms Act (which cover the machineguns, silencers, "sawed-off" stuff, and now, Streetsweepers), Title 26, Section 5845(a) has a lengthy definition of "firearm" :
    The term ''firearm'' means

    (1)

    a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;

    (2)

    a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;

    (3)

    a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;

    (4)

    a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;

    (5)

    any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);

    (6)

    a machinegun;

    (7)

    any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and

    (8)

    a destructive device. The term ''firearm'' shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

    (b) Machinegun

    The term ''machinegun'' means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

    (c) Rifle

    The term ''rifle'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.

    (d) Shotgun

    The term ''shotgun'' means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.

    (e) Any other weapon

    The term ''any other weapon'' means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.



    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    mpolans is on the money. Under Title 18, US Code, Section 921 (a) (3), a firearm frame or receiver is considered to be a "firearm" under Federal firearms law.

    fort knox, the Secretary of the Treasury announced on February 28, 1994, that the Striker-12, USAS-12, and the Streetsweeper were being classified as "destructive devices". On February 9, 2001, ATF published a ruling that established the final May 1, 2001 deadline for registration. All FFL & C&R holders were notified in writing, and ads were placed in several gun magazines. I don't know what, more than that, they could have done. In any cases, no additional guns have been added to that group.

    Neal
  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks to nmyers and mpolans for setting the recrod straight.

    As far as it being "easy" to miss the registration requirement, I disagree. When the reclassification came, I received a notice from the Treasury to provide the names and addresses of all persons to whom the reclassified shotguns had been sold. I reported my name and home address along with the others to whom I had sold the shotguns, and soon received a registration kit at my home. The kit had a provision for reporting to whom I had sold it if I had. In addition, advertisements ran for years in all firearms publications. It would have been hard to have missed all these efforts for seven years, but any that did cannot correct it now, and any unregistered shotgun is contraband.

    If truly unregistered, have the seller destroy the receiver and the you can buy the remaining parts for $150, which should allow you to make a nice profit in selling the parts.

    By the way, the Street Sweeper is of lesser quality than the Striker-12, and is therefore worth less. Some people confuse the two, kind of like some folks calling every AR-15 clone an AR-15!
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