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.44 Spec/.44 Mag. - .38 Spec./.357 Mag. ???

fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
edited June 2003 in Ask the Experts
Why does the caliber number stay consistent with some cartridges available in a magnum load and not the .357 Magnum?

For example; .44 Special/.44 Magnum.

So, why isn't it .38 Special/.38 Magnum...instead of .357 Magnum?

***removed unnecessary information.
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Comments

  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The nominal caliber of the .38 Special is actually .357". When Phil Sharpe and the rest of the gang designed the new hotter cartridge they decided to use the actual deminsions as the name and added the word magnum. Why not call it the .38 Magnum? I really don't know but during the 1930's there were probably 10 different centirefire pistol cartridges in circulation using the .38 caliber designation as well as a few old .38 rim fires still floating around. I suppose the .357 Magnum designation rather than .38 Magnum kept the new round from getting lost in the crowd. This is only my opinion (guess) and we have a real cartridge expert on our board so if ICONOCLAST knows the real story here I am eager for another lesson!

    Mark T. Christian
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  • rldowns3rldowns3 Member Posts: 6,096
    edited November -1
    It is actually the .38 special that is mislabeled, they are both .357 inches in diameter. They (S&W) developed the .357 magnum for law enforcement to compete with criminals in firepower, their old .38 s&w's couldn't penetrate a car door so they developed the .357 which would punch through the car door but they didn't want to call it a .38, .357 sounded better and they threw on the label "magnum" after the large french champagne bottles that were called "magnum". It kind of stuck I guess.

    Annoy a liberal by working hard and being happy.

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  • rtvhrtvh Member Posts: 145 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I always wondered myself thanks

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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Marketing.
    The 38 hasn't been a 38 since the heel style bullets of the early cartridge days and then they measured .375".
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  • fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by SaxonPig
    I am not aware of a .41 Special.

    I removed the ".41 Special"...thought there was one, but it isn't necessary information. This will make it easier...just delete it. Thanks Saxon.
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  • SunraySunray Member Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There was a .41 Colt, as I recall, but no Special. There's no rhyme or reason to the name of any cartridge. And it gets worse. The .303 British for instance, isn't. The Brits measured their calibres from land to land instead of groove to groove and there's a tolerance in the bore's diameter they consider to be ok. A .303 Brit. barrel will slug at .311 to .315 and still be ok.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's somewhat tortured, but the ".38" caliber revolver rounds have their roots in the .36 caliber cap & ball revolvers. In fact, some of the earliest cartridge offerings were called ".36/.38" for a short period of time. The .38 Spl actually originated as the .38-44 S&W target cartridge and the case was used to make the "new" round. Depending on the cartridge, the nominal bullet diameter will vary from .357 to .362 or so, but they are all roughly .36 caliber.

    And, frankly, trying to apply logic to cartridge names / designations is an easy way to drive yourself quite mad in a very short period of time! [;)]

    v35 - The .38 rimfires were in the .375 +/- range with heel designs, but not the CF cartridges; the bullets for the latter were all roughly .36 - excepting, of course, the .38 WCF with it's .401" diameter.
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  • fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Iconoclast


    And, frankly, trying to apply logic to cartridge names / designations is an easy way to drive yourself quite mad in a very short period of time! [;)]



    That sounds familiar...wondered why these things bothered me. I would have expected some standardization or rationale about it. The whimsical nature of this you seem to allude to has been echoed here a bit by some other respondents (thanks!). Numbers don't lie...unless they are statistics!

    I remember my first discussion about the .38 special/.357 Magnum designations about 25 years ago. That's one mystery I can mark off of my "to-do-list". Better late than never! Thank you for the history lesson Icon. That was very interesting...I would have never guessed.
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  • XracerXracer Member Posts: 1,990 ✭
    edited November -1
    ........and, of course, both .44 Special and .44 Magnum are actually .429.

    .....and all 38s are .357 execpt .38-40 which is .401.

    ....and if you're not confused now, you just don't understand the situation! [:D]

    Seriously, there's often little rhyme or reason to American caliber designations....like Topsy, they sort of "jest growed".

    The European metric system is much more accurate and descriptive...but a lot less fun! [;)]
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