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M1 Help

jaoobjaoob Member Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
edited July 2003 in Ask the Experts
I put money down on the M1 I talked about last week and picked it up today.
Springfield Armory #3431xxx
Stock marked SA over GAW crossed cannons along side and a P inside a circle on the pistol grip.
Bolt # 6528287-sa yo1
trigger group D28290-8-sa
safety c46015-9sa
hammer what I can see 500S-3sa
operating rod D35382-sa
Receiver A 2 9 B below that D2829135 also on receiver RRAD 11-65
Barrel marked SA 6535448 8 65 BU 24 also a D M and another symbol.
Barrel has a weld to receiver. Is this normal when installing barrels?
Bore looks good and rifle looks real nice overall.
Shooter or collector?
Any help appreciated.

Thank You.

Jim
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    jaoobjaoob Member Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I looked at a M1 today in a gun shop. It was on consignment and the price was 550.00 Out ward appearance looked good. It was a Springfield Armory. Seven digit ser# starting with 3. Had a SA cartouche on stock and a bolt with numbers on it and letters SA. What else should I look at? Is this a fair price for a shooter?
    Thanks for the help.

    Jim
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    The barrel welded to the receiver does NOT sound good. I'm a collector and not an armorer but we have a member, v35, who has probably assembled hundreds of M1 serivice rifles from parts and can provide insight. I wonder if the barrel would not index properly to the receiver and rather than turning it it was welded? The barrel marking indicates the obvious-- barrel produced in August, 1965. The RRAD marking indicates a rebuild Red River Arsenal and Depot in November, 1965. This is a shooter (MAYBE) and not a collector M1...but you claimed not to be paying near collector money. The stock with its cartouche is valuable to a collector of WWII M1 rifles and can easily be sold for more than enough cash to purchase some nice new commercial wood. The rest of the parts, except for the trigger group, are post WWII; the operating rod bears a drawing number which was only used on armory rebuild from 1946 through 1949 (some collections lack an example). All and all it sounds like a clean arsenal rebuild, but that welded barrel continues to bother me. I hope v35 is out there some where.

    Mark T. Christian
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    jaoobjaoob Member Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark,
    Thanks for the information. Just broke it down again. The weld is about 3/4" long looks to maybe have been done at rebuild because it appears to be parkerized like barrel and receiver.
    Thanks again for the help.

    Jim
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    nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,880 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    During the "Clean and Repair" program of the early '60s, parts were cheap. The arsenals had crates of new barrels, so a bad barrel was quickly tossed. If a receiver didn't gauge properly, or threads were damaged, it was thrown in the "destroy" bin. A USGI armorer would NEVER try to weld a barrel/receiver fit problem.

    This M1 should be considered unsafe to fire; you need to get your money back.

    Neal
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    Thanks Neal. The welded barrel hardly sounded like any arsenal work I'd ever come across; someone must have pulled the receiver from the scrap pile. At this point is does sound like a refund is the order of the day.

    Mark T. Christian
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    MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member, Moderator Posts: 9,972 ******
    edited November -1
    i think i can shed some light on the welded barrel. i just rebuilt 9 (nine) of these for the local v.f.w. they got them from the army for funerals (straight pull bolt action, blanks only). the old guys were having problems pulling the op. rod back and wanted me to put blank adapters on them. the barrel nut was welded to the gas cylinder as well. i had the cut the barrel nut off and clean up the theads in the gas cylinders as well. i test fired useing ball ammo before i installed the blank adapters and they shot well.
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    jaoobjaoob Member Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A BIG Thank you for all the help. As soon as I read Neal's post I took the gun back. This was a consignment gun and the shop paid the owner off yesterday after I bought it. I did get all my money back and now the shop will try and get theirs from the owner.
    I will break any down I look at from now on. Lesson learned.
    Thanks again for saving my a** in more ways than one.

    Jim
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    fort_knoxfort_knox Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good for you. I would say that you were lucky. I am impressed with the gun shop refunding your money on a consignment item that they had already paid off!

    I don't know the situation, but, on the one hand; I wonder if the owner/manager knew of the flaw...and wonder why he didn't disclose that info (if he knew). On the other hand though; I would say that would be someone good to do business with again!
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    SunraySunray Member Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "...I did get all my money back..." Except that they clearly know nothing about M1's, they sound like an honest place to do business. They should have looked it over before they put it on their rack.
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    p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 25,750 ✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting weapon for sure. I'm glad you were able to get your money back. The stock and receiver sounds mighty good though.

    The weld interest me because I have an Air Force M-16 upper (no forward assist) that was smuggled (I guess?) back from SE Asia in the early 70's and it has the front sight assy welded to the barrel. Just a small spot weld on the bottom mind you, but a weld nevertheless. I know the history of the upper and this is the way it came home. Anyone heard of this before?
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    v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My experience with Army Ordnance and the M1 ended in 1954. Major small arms repairs by Division Ordnance was limited to rebarrelling BARs & rebreeching recoilless rifles so I have no official experience rebarreling M1s, Carbines or Springfield 03A4s. Rebarrelling of those rifles was done at Depot level. All the headspace gages for 30-06 and M1 Carbine were in our tool inventory but new barrels and action wrenches were not. Unofficially, I have unbarrelled and rebarrelled some carbines and captured Thompson M1 & 1928A1 SMGs. All those barrels made up tight when they were indexed and headspace was within specification. The only welded barrel to receiver guns I've come across were DEWATS. Some people have "REWATTED" DEWATS. The M1 could have been one of those and the weld retacked to the new barrel to cover up the mess.
    Even the Japanese and Germans never took that shortcut in fitting loose barrels to rifles produced at the end of WW2.
    I imagine the M16 sight base was tack welded because it became loose from rough handling or bayonet use.
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