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Transfer FFL won?t accept the handgun! What to do

RevolvrRevolvr Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
edited January 2006 in Ask the Experts
Hi all, got an interesting problem.

Buyer of a handgun gives me info on his transfer FFL. I call them and advise them handgun will be coming soon. They ask if I am an FFL. I say no, though I have an 03 FFL. No problem, they advise me the signed copy of the FFL is in the mail along with buyer's payment.

Next, after verifying the FFL, I ship the handgun via FedEx (I can't use USPS). Handgun arrives. Shortly thereafter my wife gets a call from the storeowner. He tells her I have violated Federal law and I am in deep trouble. He says he will not accept the handgun unless it was shipped by an FFL. She is in a state of panic for several hours until we can talk.

They did sign for and accept the handgun. The FFL wants me to pay to have it shipped back.

At no time did the FFL or the buyer advise me the FFL had a store policy of not accepting a shipment that comes from a non-licensee. Both the buyer and the FFL knew I was not a licensed dealer.

I believe I have done my due diligence by contacting the FFL, by confirming with both the FFL and buyer that I was not a licensed dealer. I have followed ATF regulations to the letter. The FFL has the gun and I have my payment. The FFL appears to have a policy that exceeds ATF regulations.

I am not sure what I should do next. I do not feel I should pay to have the handgun shipped back to me. Any communications breakdown is part to mostly the fault of the FFL. If they return it, I will refund the buyer's money. Or the buyer and I could discuss with the FFL and try to convince him to bend store policy.

Ideas?
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Comments

  • jnmiller75jnmiller75 Member Posts: 899 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wow, gotta love dealers that make up the law as they go.

    I would try and talk to the dealer and quote him the regs that a non-FFL can ship a firearm as long as it is to a licensed individual. I know, it wont do any good, but it is a good place to start.

    Did you send a copy of you DL with the firearm. If you did, I would explain to him that all the information he needs to record where the firearm came from was included.

    If that dosn't work, I would refuse to pay for him to ship it back. He can spend his own money to return it. If he tries to say he will just not send it, inform him then that you will report it as a theft.

    No matter what happens, keep in touch with the buyer. Keep him upto date on what is going on. If in the end he decides he wants a refund, give him the refund.

    In the future, specifically ask the transfering dealer if he accepts from non-licensed individuals before sending the gun. Also I would add a statement to my listings that if the buyers dealer won't accept shipments from a non-FFL, then he will pay X additional dollars for you to ship it via FFL.
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  • perry shooterperry shooter Member Posts: 17,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The FFL on the other end needs to enter in his books BUT wants a record of where he got the item from. This is a problem that is fairly common. You have done nothing wrong however you have a stand off . see if the receiving end will take a copy of your drivers lic. as proff of where he got the gun from . YOU did not break any law.
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  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Call the dealer and tell him to call his local ATF and explain his concerns. Then after he has talked to them to call you back and let you know that the buyer received the weapon okay.
    As long as you have a receipt from UPS that he has signed for it, you are home free unless HE wants to pay to have it returned.

    If it comes back, refund the buyers money except for the shipping.
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  • 300300 Member Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you have an 03 license did you send a copy with the shipment? If you did there is no reason for the receiving dealer to question the delivery.
    Some dealers will not accept shipment of firearms from individuals due to the possibility of the firearms having been stolen and then they (the dealers) are involved to the extent that they will need to prove that they took reasonable steps to ascertain the identity of the shipper.
    Step back a minute -- if someone came into your shop and wanted to sell you a handgun, you would want proof positive of who he was since if stolen, receiving it could lead to trafficing in stolen firearms...
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  • jarjar Member Posts: 620 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The laws on this are very clear. why do some people have to make a stink. Its just my opinion but some people practice C Y A just a little too far! dosent the recieveing ffl know that by protecting himself so diligently hes hurting his own client? Just my 2 cents!
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  • toolman9mmtoolman9mm Member Posts: 337 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well i can only speak about new york state....in new york all handgun sales have to go through a ffl dealer with a state handgun dealers license for a shipment out of state sale...in new york you would have not violated federal law but it would have been a violation of state law..that is my state law but not sure what state you live in...
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  • RevolvrRevolvr Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Update.

    I wasn't getting anywhere with them, but the buyer was a good customer of the FFL and had bought a number of firearms from them. I contacted the buyer by phone and suggested that he had some clout as a good customer that I didn't.

    It seemed to work. There is some additional documentation the FFL wants from me, but he has agreed to transfer the handgun, making a policy exception in this case. Having a weekend for all parties to cool off probably helped too.

    All in all no harm done and a few good lessons learned for me in dealing with FFL's.
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  • Spider7115Spider7115 Member Posts: 29,704 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In my auction http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=43212353, I specifically state:

    "THIS IS A PRIVATE SALE SO PLEASE CONFIRM THAT YOUR RECEIVING DEALER WILL ACCEPT A COPY OF MY DRIVER'S LICENSE"

    This gives the buyer sufficient notice to insure his receiving dealer will not have a problem accepting a handgun from a non-licensee. It prevents a lot of hassle and misunderstandings after the auction.
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  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    after the deal is done and all parties are paid and satisfied, burn a copy of this thread and send it to the jerk.[8]
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    It is legal for you, an individual, to ship a firearm to a FFL dealer, after which it is part of his inventory. It became part of his inventory the moment he accepted it from the delivery driver. It MUST be entered in his book at that point.

    Now, the dilemma. It is ILLEGAL for the dealer to ship the gun to you, an individual. Ask him what sort of disposition entry he intends to make in his bound book, that is subject to ATF inspection anytime they feel like it.
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