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Old Ammo and Action Designs

RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
edited February 2006 in Ask the Experts
Had an experience yesterday that has me re-thinking my use of old ammo and brass, as well as the (no longer so theoretical) advantages of various action types.
I had a partial box of old Winchester .270 ammo; 100 grain soft point, "SuperSpeed" head stamp and well worn red and yellow box. The 5 remaining rounds (not reloads) appeared to be in perfect condition. Bright and shiny; no sign of corrosion or undue aging.
Curious about velocity I headed down back with chronograph in one hand and my near mind Mannlicher Schoenaur 1952 in the other.
Velocity averaged 3,458. Only problem was that the touching off the last round resulted in a sharp stinging sensation across my forehead.
Of course I was wearning safety glasses and ear protectors but the surprise was most unpleasant to say the least.
I packed up my gear and headed back to my shop. Discovered 2 things.
First, one case had split just forward of the rim, and second, the 1952 action did little if anything to protect me from the hot spit of fire and brass. Except for the 2 locking lugs and the ejector that pretty smooth bolt does nothing to interrupt the flow of hot gas back through the action and out the back end.
I saved that one case, crushed the others, and now am rethinking my use of a quantity of old SuperSpeed .257 brass that I have, as well as the M.L. itself. Thinking of trashing the first and selling the second. Had that case let go in my Ruger 77 I don't think the outcome would have been near the same.

Comments

  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just out of curiousity, have you ever guaged the headspace of your 1952 mannlicher?
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fair question, and answer is no. On the other hand I've fired thousands of reloads and close to a hundred factory rounds through this rifle with no indication that headspace is anything other than spot on. The round that let go on me was NOT a reload, but an old factory round. Maybe the brass got a bit brittle after 50 plus years? Or maybe there was a flaw that would have given way right off the assembly line. Who knows? What intrigued me most was that although this is by far smoothest and most beautifully made rifle I've ever seen, the design does not seem particularly well suited to protecting the shooter in the event of case failure. I shudder to think of what might have come my way had the head separated.
    Thanks for writing.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rob,

    Was the split parallel to the base and rim or did it run lengthwise with the long dimension of the case?

    Was there significant debris on the boltface?

    What did the face of the case rim look like, was there any shiny marks or small gouges? What did the firing pin mark look like on the primer?

    Thanks.
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 10,045 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WHAT NONONSENCE ASKED... A LENGHTWISE SPLIT IS A CASE FAILURE, CAN HAPPEN TO ANY BRAND, ANY AGE AMMO. A CIRCUMFERAL (sp?) SPLIT IS A HEADSPACE PROBLEM. AS FOR TEH GAS HANDLING QUALITIES (OR LACK THEREOF), THIS AN ENGINERING PROBLEM THE M/S DIDN'T ADDRESS (RE: M-93 MAUSER VERS. THE M-98 MAUSER). MOST POST 1900 BOLT ACTIONS HAD GAS HANDLING QUALITIES BUILT IN (M-1903/1917, M-98 MAUSERS ECT.)
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nononsense,
    Split runs front to back, about .2" long and starting that same distance from the rear of the case. A little soot at the front end (approx. .1" blot) and to the rear the soot mark spread out about 1/4" to either side of split. No sign of any debree on bolt face, other than the soot. Nothing that I associate with high pressure signs; primer was flattened, but not excessively so. Looked perfectly normal. No sign of gas leakage around it. All leakage clearly came from this small, almost dumbbell shaped crack. (i.e. approx. .017 wide at the center and openning to approx. .045 at either end.) Firing pin indentation appears normal and no shiny points or scratches that I'd expect if pressure had been excessive and there was any brass flow into various irregularities in the bolt face.
    Thanks for your interest and questions.
  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rob,

    It sounds like a plain old fashion case failure whether due to metallurgy or some unseen fault in the extrusion, who knows. Keep the case on your reloading bench.

    Test the .257 brass, it may be O.K.

    Far be it for me to tell you what to do with your rifle. I've fired thousands of rounds through several that I've worked with and never had a problem, ever. But that's not to say that the next time may be the one time. Personally I think it's the brass and you won't or shouldn't have any other problems if you use new brass.

    Best.
  • RCrosbyRCrosby Member Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Re: "Far be it for me to tell you what to do with your rifle."
    Nononsense, I appreciate the advice. Doesn't make much sense to spend all kinds of money on scopes, chronographs, triggers, etc. etc., and then give up a beautiful rifle rather than invest in some decent brass. Just one of those ever present variables I tend to ignore until they make a difference!
    Great discussion, all around.
    Thanks all!
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