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Shipping handgun via FEDEX-II

tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
edited May 2014 in Ask the Experts
capgun wrote:

quote:quote:
Originally posted by tsr1965

IF you seem to know all of the laws, then why are you asking us, and rebutting everything that is being told you by experienced individuals?

I know for a FACT, that it IS legal for an 01 FFL to mail by USPS, or PRIORITY MAIL-USPS, to a C&R. It is most likely less expensive, to have an 01 FFL do that for you, especially if you do not tell him he can't, and/or don't know what they are doing.



Oh well, more complete misinformation. Your FACT is completely wrong. Do you realize the mailer of a handgun has to fill out a 1508 form, certifying that the handgun is being mailed to a BONA FIDE DEALER? A C&R license states right on its face that it can not be used for dealing in firearms. It is well established that C&R holders can not mail or receive through the mail handguns.http://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf

Well then, since you do know it all, the most effective way for you to get it to the C&R, is if you do it yourself. If it doesn't involve crossing a state line, you might even consider hand delivering it. The form you are looking for is a 1508, and the FFL I am talking about, is a USPS employee, and Judge...so I am pretty sure he knows the regulations, and the law.

I think you should do a little more research on the BATFE web site, and at the USPS. I think you are putting your own spin(interpretation) on something that albeit is a gray area in some places, but black and white in other's. Basically, other than making a profit, C&R license holders are afforded the same shipping/receiving privilege's as the 01 FFL, and some that the 01 FFL does not even have.

In the mean time, you shouldn't be so negative with the folks that have decades worth of experience in the ever-changing world of dealing in firearms.

Best

EDIT

OK, Mark, agreed. You can delete the post, or lock it if you wish.

Comments

  • mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 22,861 ******
    edited November -1
    This is the list of those who are allowed to use the US Mail to send and receive handguns and licensed collectors are not included:


    Exhibit 432.2

    Mailability Requirements for Handguns




    Unloaded Handgun

    Handguns - e.g., pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person - are nonmailable UNLESS mailed by a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or government of a state, territory, or district, and ONLY when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person's official duties AND upon filing the required affidavit or certificate, as applicable (see DMM 601.12.1.3-7):
    a.Addressee: Officer of Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the commanding officer.
    b.Addressee: Officer of National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the commanding officer.
    c.Addressee: Officer of the federal government or a state, district, or territory whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of the agency employing the addressee.
    d.Addressee: Postal Service employees specifically authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of the agency employing the addressee.
    e.Addressee: Officer or employee of a U.S. enforcement agency.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of the agency employing the addressee.
    f.Addressee: Watchman engaged in guarding federal, state, district, or territory property.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by chief clerk of department, bureau, or independent branch of the government agency employing the addressee.
    g.Addressee: Purchasing agent or other designated member of an enforcement agency employing officers and personnel included in c, d, or e above.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Mailable with affidavit signed by addressee and certificate signed by the head of agency stating the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee cited in c, d, or e above.
    h.Addressee: Licensed manufacturers, importers, and dealers of firearms.
    Affidavit or Certificate Requirements: Signed statement on PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms.

    The mailer must be a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer mailing to another licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer.

    Handguns may be mailed without regard to the requirements noted in items a-h if the addressee is the FBI (or its Director) or a scientific lab or crime detection bureau of any agency whose members are federal law enforcement officers or state, district, or territory officers authorized to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.

    Manufacturers or dealers must complete PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, and file with the Postmaster. The mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and components of handguns under 431.1, are being mailed in customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers, dealers, or importers of firearms.

    Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to the PCSC for a ruling.

    Registered Mail service is recommended.]


    Now we have covered this USPS issue I don't know how many times in the forums but in this case the OP had ZERO interest in mailing a handgun, he wanted to use FedEx so lets direct our attention to his FedEx question.
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    I normally do have my dealer mail handguns USPS, but a C&R can not receive a handgun USPS. I asked the question because I thought someone may have some clarification about the Fedex policy. I called Fedex, and they stated they do not give legal advice. They said to follow the policy. It is strange that C&Rs can ship to each other by Fedex, but an individual can only ship to a dealer or manufacturer. Fedex makes the rules, and it looks like there is no way for an individual to use them for handgun shipment to a C&R, and my dealer will not ship to C&Rs. The C&R buyer said he receives handguns all the time via USPS and Fedex. I don't doubt it, but it is not something I would do. No more selling handguns to C&Rs for me.
  • toad67toad67 Member Posts: 9,937 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's one of the bad parts for us non FFL holders for selling pistols here on GB. A 01 can ship it for about $20 or so, and us non FFL holders have to charge 2x or more making us less competitive. If I have a pistol to sell I just try and do it locally, unless it's a more desirable one then the exposure usually makes up for it.

    T67
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    This was a 1902 Colt SAA I sold, and there is little local market. You need the exposure of the internet. I will just require an 01 FFL for purchase. I feel sorry for the C&R buyers. They can legally buy it, but I can not get it to them.
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,320 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's your loss.

    My observation is that C&R licensees will often bid 10-20% more for quality classic guns if the seller will ship to a C&R.

    Neal

    EDIT: Well, UPS will accept a firearm for shipment from an individual to a collector. (See UPS Tariff, 3.6.1) There's your solution.
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    That's your loss.

    My observation is that C&R licensees will often bid 10-20% more for quality classic guns if the seller will ship to a C&R.

    Neal
    Thats fine, but if I can not ship the gun to a C&R holder it does not do me any good.
  • tsr1965tsr1965 Member Posts: 8,682
    edited November -1
    Ship it to a local dealer, that he does business with, and let the dealer handle it from there.

    Then...like Neal says, still sell to C&R's, but make a disclaimer in your auction, stating that you only ship to dealer's. If it is that nice of an example, then the C&R will research out his own least expensive transaction from a dealer.

    As I found out today, that is what is happening with the example I was talking about with the Farmer/USPS employee/Judge/FFL...The C&R, also has an 01 FFL. He is sucking up a lot of pristine old S&W's.

    EDIT 1

    I do understand what you are saying capgun, but the local dealer can just log it out to him, as no shipping is involved. If the firearm is that good of an example, the C&R will not mind paying the price for it. Once it leaves you for the 01 dealer, then you have no more worries, what is legal, or not...it is up to that dealer.


    [brown]EDIT 2
    quote:That would be nice if we had UPS within 200 miles of here. They will not ship firearms from a satellite UPS store. That is why this thread is titled shipping handgun via Fedex.



    Wow, that really sucks. Sorry to hear your situation. That could very well regulate you to use an 01 FFL for most of your shipping.

    brown]
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
    Ship it to a local dealer, that he does business with, and let the dealer handle it from there.

    Then...like Neal says, still sell to C&R's, but make a disclaimer in your auction, stating that you only ship to dealer's. If it is that nice of an example, then the C&R will research out his own least expensive transaction from a dealer.

    As I found out today, that is what is happening with the example I was talking about with the Farmer/USPS employee/Judge/FFL...The C&R, also has an 01 FFL. He is sucking up a lot of pristine old S&W's.
    In other words I am shipping to a 01FFL. I am not selling a to a C&R any more than I am selling to a private party. Most C&Rs do not want to do that, thats why they got a C&R.
  • capguncapgun Member Posts: 1,848
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by nmyers
    That's your loss.

    My observation is that C&R licensees will often bid 10-20% more for quality classic guns if the seller will ship to a C&R.

    Neal

    EDIT: Well, UPS will accept a firearm for shipment from an individual to a collector. (See UPS Tariff, 3.6.1) There's your solution.
    That would be nice if we had UPS within 200 miles of here. They will not ship firearms from a satellite UPS store. That is why this thread is titled shipping handgun via Fedex.
  • mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 22,861 ******
    edited November -1
    There is nothing new being covered here and no one should consider opening PART III since there was no real need for PART II.
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