Winchester 1894 Proof Mark Dates Latest Info ??

Texas Bear

Question for Bert H:
Over the past several years Bert has provided information regarding (1) when Winchester started placing the WP and P proof marks on the barrel & receiver, and (2) when the Patent Date appeared on the barrels & upper tang. Since his post have been at different times the serial numbers/dates given have changed slightly. I am interested in the latest survey information regarding:

1. When the first WP appeared on the Receivers and when all had it.
2. When the first WP appeared on the barrels and when all had it.
3. When the P (mail order) stamp first appeared.

4. When the patent date "Aug 21" first appeared on the barrel, and when did it cease?
5. When the patent date "Aug 21" first appeared on the upper tang, and when did it cease?

Any information will be appreciated. [:)]
And, I understand that with Winchester information, there are always exceptions. [;)]
Thanks, Don

Bert H.

Don,

My research survey has evolved greatly over the past number of years, and has been significantly refined in the past few years. The total number of specimens in the survey has grown tremendously in the past four years, and it now stands at > 10,000, and is growing by approximately 200 new serial numbers per month.

On to your questions;

quote:1. When the first WP appeared on the Receivers and when all had it.
Answer: Serial number 255480 is the lowest confirmed with factory proof marks on the barrel & receiver frame. All serial numbers from 270738 and beyond have factory proof marks on the barrel & receiver frame.

quote:2. When the first WP appeared on the barrels and when all had it.
Answer: See my previous answer. Winchester did not mark just the barrel or just the receiver. If the firearm was proofed, both the barrel and receiver were stamped.

quote:3. When the P (mail order) stamp first appeared.
Answer: Due to the infrequency that a mail order barrel was ordered and installed, I can not answer this with any certainty. My belief is that the practice began in 1908.

quote:5. When the patent date "Aug 21" first appeared on the upper tang, and when did it cease?
Answer: The patent date was on the upper tang beginning with serial number "1". I have had my hands on serial number 3, and it was marked. The earliest tang marking is referred to as the "Type 1" by my friend Bob Renneberg. The "Type 1A" replaced it at serial number 15150, and it also has the patent date. When the "Type 2" upper tang marking was introduced, the patent date was eliminated. The transition from the Type 1A to the Type 2 tang marking occurred in the 222339 - 222874 serial number range. Serial number 222339 (and all earlier numbers) has the Type 1A, and serial number 222874 is the first one I have surveyed with the Type 2 (and all serial numbers after it have a Type 2 marking until circa 449000).

quote:4. When the patent date "Aug 21" first appeared on the barrel, and when did it cease?
Answer: I have not refined the serial number ranges to answer this question with the same level of certainty as the other questions you posed. That stated, Winchester began marking the patent date on the barrels very shortly after they stopped using the Type 1A upper tang marking. There are a few specimens out there that have a Type 2 UT marking, but do not have the patent date stamped with the Winchester address. Instead, the patent date is stamped independently on the barrel behind the address stamp, but in front of the rear sight dovetail.

Hopefully, your questions have been satisfactorily answered.

I will one day in the future publish all of my research findings.