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Pistol HP or TMJ best?
5mmgunguy
Member Posts: 3,853
I was talking at the range and got into a discussion as to the best pistol bullet. There were two camps, one the JHP and the other was lead SWC or/and the TMJ bullet. Ok so I was now interested from the experts point of view what do you think? I can see for a smaller caliber (32 ACP) that a heavy lead SWC is better than a lighter JHP. But for a heavier round 45 ACP what are your thoughts?
Comments
Personally, I would not use fmj bullets for defense in any caliber, unless it's the only gun I can have and they only run on fmj's (like a pocket .25...better than nuthin'). Same goes for lead RN bullets. IMO lead SWC, SWC-HP or even full wadcutters at the same speeds will work better stopping a crook than RN do.
I will say am really impressed with the Hornady critical defense rounds, they seem to expand even with .380's through cloth. In .45, they'll be really good. I no worky for Hornady, nor do we use them at work, but we did test them side by side with some other stuff and they seemed to be a good design.
personal defense,Lawyers
will be all over you.
IMO reliability is the most important thing, be it fmj, jhp or any other style.
+1 to that.
If your gun only runs FMJ type bullets reliably, then that's what you should use. This is true of lots of guns, especially small pocket autos.
quote:Personally, I would not use fmj bullets for defense in any caliber, unless it's the only gun I can have and they only run on fmj's (like a pocket .25...better than nuthin').
There I disagree in part.
In my opinion, full metal jacket bullets are the preferred load from "mouseguns" in .25 ACP and .32 ACP. They're not generally available in .22, but if they were, you could use them. For .22LR, I sincerely believe that the best "defensive" rounds are actually solid lead 40 grain "target" rounds, though I'll leave discussion of why to a different post.
The reason for FMJ in mouse guns is that the limiting factor in efficacy with these small rounds is penetration. Bluntly, the small slow light bullets are easily slowed down by clothes, bone, and soft tissue, and often won't go deep enough to hit a vital organ. Anything you do to reduce bullet penetration in THIS case is going to reduce your efficacy. To maximize penetration, you want the heaviest possible bullet weight, and a solid bullet design.
.380 is debatable, since its right on the edge of a "small" and "medium" load. .380 ACP rounds hollowpoint rounds are notorious for blowing up on leather jackets and the like. I think as Riomouse says, if you have a really good non-FMJ round, then use it. Personally, I keep ball ammo in my .380, mostly because its more reliable.
For anything bigger than .380 (and that, obviously includes .45ACP), you're probably better off with an expanding "personal protection" type round, be it hollowpoint or softpoint, if you have the ability to use one. Again, if you're in the military, you're stuck with ball ammo except under very limited circumstances.
How MUCH better expanding ammo is, is debatable, but I'd still pick it first, again, assuming it ran with 100% reliability in my gun.
Defense
What stops the 'fight' is oxygen deprivation to the brain unless you get lucky and make a central nervous system hit (upper spine or brain). Oxygen deprivation is caused by blood loss, thus the loss of adequate circulation (blood pressure). This can only be accomplished with a large wound to the vital organs of the cardiopulmonary system. The bullet which causes this is one which EXPANDS but retains it's weight to allow adequate penetration. Non expanding bullets were used in the past due to lack of applied science. But today we have found there to be only about 5% difference in permanent wound cavities caused by the BEST defence (expanding bullets[;)])ammo in 9mm, 357 Sig, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP. Many still think the 'larger' or 'heavier' bullet you use the better it will perform in a defence environment. This is not true (a myth) which was the case when only non-expanding bullets were available.
There is way to much emotion and misinformation out there on this subject, but you can be sure there is NO non expanding bullet out there that can come close to the permanent wound cavity caused with modern defense ammunition.
Hope this helped![:)]
Best