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Cartridge identification question
harkbroke
Member Posts: 60 ✭✭
A friend gave me a stripper clip that contains five brass cartridges and I have no idea what they are. They look to be similar in size to maybe a 30.06.
The overall length of the cartridge is 2-5/32" long. The case is just a hair less than 2-1/4" long and the exposed part of the full metal jacket pointed projectile measures 1/32" under 15/16" long. The diameter of the projectile at the mouth of the brass case measures 5/16".
On the the primer end of the cartridge face is stamped the following symbols at the 12 Oclock, 3 Oclock, 6 Oclock, and 9 Oclock positions:
XM1
P 49
40
The primer appears to be painted black and I notice
the projectile is attracted to a magnet.
Thanks for your help in identifying these.
The overall length of the cartridge is 2-5/32" long. The case is just a hair less than 2-1/4" long and the exposed part of the full metal jacket pointed projectile measures 1/32" under 15/16" long. The diameter of the projectile at the mouth of the brass case measures 5/16".
On the the primer end of the cartridge face is stamped the following symbols at the 12 Oclock, 3 Oclock, 6 Oclock, and 9 Oclock positions:
XM1
P 49
40
The primer appears to be painted black and I notice
the projectile is attracted to a magnet.
Thanks for your help in identifying these.
Comments
So, I'd guess you have a stripper of WW-2 8mm Mauser rounds.
2 1/4" case length + 29/32" bullet projection = a OAL of 3 5/32, not the 2 5/32" you posted
The 8x57J round has a bullet that measures .318 dia.
Either could come with an iron jacketed bullet.
The 8x57S round has a bullet that measures .323 dia.
The 8x57J round has a bullet that measures .318 dia.
Either could come with an iron jacketed bullet.
Or, as the German military noted it:
M/88 (as in 1888) 7.9x57 was loaded with a 225gr round nose bullet of .318 diameter
The "current" version was adopted in 1905 and was loaded with a 153gr Spitzer bullet of .323 diameter
It is worth noting, and so as to not confuse the OP, the M/88 went obsolete prior to WW-1 (the 7.92x57 was adopted in 1905), while his cartridges were made in 1940 (WW-2)
http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes
Thanks......I checked out this site and don't seem to find anything conclusive regarding the headstamp codes.
8MM mauser cartridges from WWII?
And on one of the cartridges I lightly sanded away the copper jacket on one side and it reveals shiny steel or iron underneath. If this is a steel or iron core full metal jacketed bullet, would they be considered to be armor piercing?
Also, how does the 8MM Mauser round compare to American made cartridges?
Would the 8MM be comparable ballistically to our 30-06?
They plated the steel jacket with copper (copper being a critical war material) for barrel wear and corrosion reasons, rather than using a full copper jacket.
AP rounds have a hardened steel or tungsten insert in them. NOTE that often a soft steel insert was used in standard ball ammo, to lighten up the bullet, so even if it has such a core it may not be AP.
Ball rounds normally have plain bullets, while most* "specialty" bullets (AP, Tracer, Incendiary, API, Explosive, etc) use painted tips to identify them. (* Most, some countries used painted case heads for special loadings)
The 8 Mauser is right up there with the 30-06, as are all the other main battle cartridges of that era (303 Brit, 7.7 Arasaka, 7.62x54R Russian, etc)
I am probably dense but the description of the headstamp doesn't make sense.
You stated there were symbols at 12, 3, 6, and 9 o clock positions on the head stamp. I see three codes XM1, P 49, and 40. Do you mean:
XM1 at 12 o clock
P at 3 o clock
49 at 6 o clock
40 at 9 o clock
????
Could it be the head stamp is actually:
P at 12 o clock
Xm1 at 3 o clock
49 at 6 o clock
40 at 9 o clock
????
If it is:
Tailgunner is correct as usual, they are 7.92x57 mm. The cartridges were made at Polte Armaturen-u. Maschinenfabrik A.G., Werk Magdeburg, Sachsen.
X = Steel Mill Code = Kl?ckner-Werke A.G., Abteilung Georgs-Marien-Werke, Moserstr. 51, Osnabr?ck
m = Plating Company = F.A. Lange Metallwerke A.G., Neusilberfabrikate, Aue, Sachsen
1 = Steel Analysis Number = Carbon : 0,15 - 0,22 % / Manganese : 0,4 % / Silica : 0,12 % / Phosphorous : 0,03 % / Sulfur : 0,03 %
49 = Lot number
40 = Two digit year code = 1940
Based on these markings the cartridge cases should be made from copper-plated steel (not brass) because a steel mill and plating company are identified on the head stamp.
There are five possibilities for the type of bullet based on the lot number. But based on the statement the primers were black in color my guess is these are schweres Spitzgescho? 30/40 (heavy pointed bullet) or s.S. patrone. It is a mild steel core with a copper jacket. It is not an S.m.K. which was the primary German armor-piercing round.
Be careful sanding military bullets and as a rule if it isn't identified don't sand it. The Germans also used a B. Patrone which was an exploding observation round and these can do some damage.
If I am incorrect about the head stamp markings, please let me know.
Best,
Heavyiron