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. 32 Colt

MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
anybody reload for this??. I bought a stevens favorite in .32 r.f., just converted it to c.f.. I have a 110 gn. bullet mold for a gas check bullet that should work for the 'heeled' cart.
note. the .32 rim fire and .32 colt center fire are the same cart. except for the ignition type. marlin made a rifle (m-92) that came with 2 firing pins for each.
tpuxFQel.jpg

Comments

  • charliemeyer007charliemeyer007 Member Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think it was about 55 years ago dad acquired one of those lever guns. He made the centerfire firing pin so we could shoot it as even then the rimfire ammo was a collectible and hard to find local. I don't remember if he loaded for it or not, but I suspect he did to some extent. Some of the shooters had a pool of dies/molds that were loaned out.

    I think the original heeled bullet was 75 to 80 grs. .299 was the diameter. Your bullet looks like a Lyman 311359, might work - seems a tad oversized and heavy. Turning off the driving band ahead of the gas check zone might help

    I saw someone was making a proper style healed bullet for it ($160)

    https://www.buffaloarms.com/313-84-grain-32-long-or-short-colt-heeled-bullet-mould-1-cavity-jim313080

    https://castbulletassoc.org/download/Ideal moulds - 1929.pdf

    Standardization back then was somewhat iffy. Early cartridges evolved. Sort of like how the 45 Colt went from .454 to .452 - logistics
  • mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I humbly recommend that you try some double end target wadcutters - lead from a mold with some antimony added on older worn out or pitted bores - or copper coated in a new or sleeved bbl...

    And check the chamber length on rolling or falling block single shot rifles or carbines - many will allow for a longer OAL than most revolvers.from the period

    I have found that this handload configuration can yield surprising accuracy especially if you dial in the OAL in your long gun

    I shoot the .32.colt - .32 long colt - .32 H&R magnum - .32-20 (standard and HV) .32 RF (short and standard and long and extra Long)

    Depending on your guns condition and architecture mildly bot or high velocity or carbine only may realize tighter groups

    Externally lubricated lead semi wadcutters may surprise you in carbines

    Round ball and duplex and shot loads are also worth testing out

    And consider paper patched / wrapped projectiles

    Mike
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "And consider paper patched / wrapped projectiles"...............I don't think that will work with the 'heeled' bullet/cartridge (they both measure .315"). while the bore isn't 'new' it still shoots well with the .32 s.c.( I can't find any .32 longs right now). any bullet that would fit 'inside' the case would be way under size for the bore.
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    The one guy I know that loads heeled bullets had lots of bad groups when the heeled length is too long. Says the front {the part of the bullet that touches the rifling} must be as long as possible. Hollow base heels gave the best accuracy.
    I don't think most of mrmike's suggestions are valid for your heeled loads.

    here is some interesting reading for you.

    http://www.leverguns.com/articles/heelbullets.htm
  • mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I understand that the question focused on the above referenced and pictured hand poured lead heeled bullet using an existing mold...

    My response proposed some alternative projectile design - shape - architecture - profile - and material constituent elements that may yield positive results for those hand loading specifically for carbines and short rifles...

    If success can be realized with the aforementioned heeled bullet I will save the suggested data and techniques and test them myself on similar long gun platforms - I wonder if a gas check might be functional and appropriate for testing under your specific circumstances...

    Certainly achieving the correct best overall length may be key to proper seating and to prevent bullet jump in the case is any gap - so seating depth would be an important factor in the accuracy equation...

    Mike
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    200px-Modern_bullet_vs_heeled_bullet_diagram.png

    In case readers are lost about heeled bullets, see the above pic.
    In a heeled cartridge, the bullet is reduced diameter where it goes into the case.
    The OD of the case IS the bore diameter.
    Unlike most new shells that have a case diameter larger than the bore.
    This leads to the problem that any Projectile that fits into the case {like most ammo}, would be undersized for the rifling of the barrel. This is why the bullet is "heeled", just like an everyday .22LR, but not like a everyday 9mm.
  • mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A comment method for manufacturers to control overall length was to utilize a heeled or stepped bullet - of one with a mold imprinted band to prevent a high pressure situation that often accompanied a projectile pushed or seated to deep into the case...

    This was especially prevalent amongst pinfire cartridges and shows up in .22 short rimfire rolin white patent infringement designs on cupfire or teatfire style ignition work around designs...

    In addition is was thought that having a fractionally oversized cross section or ring on soft lead projectiles allowed the bullet to better engage the rifling and prevent blow by - and allowed some guns with chamber wear or erosion to maintain function and accuracy longer...

    As guns with lever driven mechanical feed mechanisms and in line tube magazines (think the Evans carbine with the Mag tubes in the buttstock) developed a common problem was that the leverage applied in the action or pressure applied in loading the magazines (and spring pressure) often forced the bullet further into the case...

    I am always amazed that some of these combinations of rifle and ammo design functioned at all or did not commonly kill the shooter.

    Mike
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    ""I am always amazed that some of these combinations of rifle and ammo design functioned at all or did not commonly kill the shooter.""

    BOY!!! did you just say a mouth full!!!
    I was always amazed about the old pin fire ammo....Who thought that up???????
    Read an article many years ago about some tribes in Australia that wrap twine around old .303 British ammo, then dip it into tree sap to harden. Then fire them thru their 12 gauge
    shotguns!!!!
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    range report
    I managed to 'size' the cases using my lyman bullet sizing die (.308") and as the gas check part of the bullet has a slight taper this produces a tight fit
    kNsbY4el.jpg
    the fired bullet was recovered from a melting snow bank and shows good engraving.
    as a side note, I happened to have a 03 springfield barrel that had the chamber cut off, I machined this to fit the favorite action and chambered it so I can shoot .32 S&W (and acp also) so I now have a switch barrel .32. my load with any of the bullets is 1.4 gns of bullseye.
    Z4B8IbKl.jpg
    the targets were shot at 10 meters, the left one is the .32 colt, the right one is .32 S&W with better sights
    btLhfMzl.jpg
    it should make a nice 'squirrel' rifle
  • babunbabun Member Posts: 11,497
    edited November -1
    Outstanding!!!

    I showed your pics to the old timer friend that loads really old stuff.
    He said, "I told you!! Must have a lot of lead touching the rifling!!
    He loved your "overlong" bullets. :D
  • MIKE WISKEYMIKE WISKEY Member Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "He loved your "overlong" bullets."............the only reason I can get away with this is the rifle is chambered for the .32 'long' and I'm using .32 'short' cases
  • lew07lew07 Member Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice grouping!!!! :)
  • mrmike08075mrmike08075 Member Posts: 11,831 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The falling block and rolling block vintage carbines just provides endless fun on range days...

    I have:

    .22 long rifle
    .22 extra long rifle
    .22 hornet
    .22 savage hi power
    .25-20 wcf
    .32 rimfire
    .32 s&w long
    .32-20 wcf
    .38 long colt
    .38 special
    .357 magnum
    .41 rimfire
    .45 s&w schofield

    My bakers dozen fun guns - some of which are left over parts made into rifles and parts guns combined into rifles and Belgian / Spanish clones mated with American and British and German take off pieces - oddball orphans...

    6 have stainless steel special heavy bull barrels from 18-26 inches long installed

    Vintage competition iron sights pieced together - Frankenstein guns in some cases

    And safely experimenting with ammo compatibility and profile - architecture - bullet type takes me to a happy place

    Mike
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