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Ummmm, I think we have a problem, Houston (and everywhere)

Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
edited July 2019 in General Discussion
How is this not a machinegun? This is a machinegun... by definition of machinegun.

https://www.ballisticmag.com/2019/07/10/standard-mfg-s333-thunderstruck-available/?fbclid=IwAR2iSIvsNmaYpbzvYYYOornFRDmX7x-CMr58obJ4aKe2axrZVciN_IPNtvQ

The manufacturer is dreaming.

Plus, that trigger guard is laughable.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
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Comments

  • WearyTravelerWearyTraveler Member Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Made in my home town. Not far from where I grew up. I?m surprised - connecticut is pretty anti gun...
    ”People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
    - GEORGE ORWELL -
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  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    26 U.S.C. ? 5845(b)

    ? 5845. Definitions
    For the purpose of this chapter?
    (a) Firearm
    The term ??firearm?? means (1) a shotgun hav-
    ing a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in
    length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such
    weapon as modified has an overall length of less
    than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than
    18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or
    barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a
    weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as
    modified has an overall length of less than 26
    inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16
    inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as de-
    fined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any
    silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18,
    United States Code); and (8) a destructive de-
    vice. The term ??firearm?? shall not include an
    antique firearm or any device (other than a ma-
    chinegun or destructive device) which, although
    designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by
    reason of the date of its manufacture, value, de-
    sign, and other characteristics is primarily a
    collector?s item and is not likely to be used as
    a weapon.
    (b) Machinegun
    The term ??machinegun?? means any weapon
    which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be
    readily restored to shoot, automatically more
    than one shot, without manual reloading, by a
    single function of the trigger. The term shall
    also include the frame or receiver of any such
    weapon, any part designed and intended solely
    and exclusively, or combination of parts de-
    signed and intended, for use in converting a
    weapon into a machinegun, and any combina-
    tion of parts from which a machinegun can be
    assembled if such parts are in the possession or
    under the control of a person.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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  • 35 Whelen35 Whelen Member Posts: 14,307 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's hoping it's a new, untouchable loophole in the system that can be exploited to its fullest potential.
    An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.
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  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 21,244 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IMO it looks stupid.
    RLTW

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  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    double-barrel-pistol-34-and-3106.jpg
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  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,792 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Is this that much different from a double barrel shotgun really? I know some have a trigger for each barrel, but some will fire both barrels with a single pull if both the hammers are back.

    Do I want one? Not even a little...
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    bambihunter wrote:
    Is this that much different from a double barrel shotgun really? I know some have a trigger for each barrel, but some will fire both barrels with a single pull if both the hammers are back.

    Do I want one? Not even a little...

    Yes. This has one trigger. One pull discharges both bbls.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    TRAP55 wrote:
    double-barrel-pistol-34-and-3106.jpg

    So far as I know, this has two triggers. One for each bbl.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,792 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are some doubles that CAN fire both barrels from a single trigger, though they are mostly the older hammered type.

    Do I think this is a machine gun? No, do I think it is really pushing the boundary and will likely be banned? Yes. To me, it is a built in version of a Hell-fire or BMF trigger, or bump stock.
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,527 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Short barrel 22 mag.. about 100ftpds of energy per rd. Yes a real man stopper. Just well shoot them with a single rd of .380 or less.
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  • TRAP55TRAP55 Member Posts: 8,292 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Either gun, one pull, two rounds fired. The Fostech Echo trigger for AR-15's does the same thing with pull, then release. After the bump stock fiasco, I can see all of this next on their list.
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  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,527 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One single pull of a trigger for each barrel . Two triggers. Non NFA. A double barrel shotgun with two triggers is also non NFA
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  • Ricci WrightRicci Wright Member Posts: 8,259 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Thunderstruck is an intriguing self-defense option". Not for me it's not.
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  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I saw the pistol at this years SHOT Show. It is a well made revolver and it fits the hand, or at least my hand, surprisingly well. A single pull of the trigger, firing a single round from one of two barrels is not by definition a machinegun. As you might expect, the pistol is bulky. A S&W J-Frame is smaller, and (IMO) five rounds of .38 Special is better bet than 8 rounds of .22WMR. It's not for everyone, but unusual designs are never intended to have mass appeal.
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  • bustedkneebustedknee Member Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lets check the math...

    22mag X 2 = 44 double magnum.
    I can't believe they misspelled "Pork and Beans!"
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  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bustedknee wrote:
    Lets check the math...

    22mag X 2 = 44 double magnum.

    I had to look at that a second time. When I (finally) figured it out...I laughed twice as hard.
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  • drobsdrobs Member Posts: 22,620 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see 2 triggers on that revolver.
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  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    mark christian wrote:
    I saw the pistol at this years SHOT Show. It is a well made revolver and it fits the hand, or at least my hand, surprisingly well. A single pull of the trigger, firing a single round from one of two barrels is not by definition a machinegun. As you might expect, the pistol is bulky. A S&W J-Frame is smaller, and (IMO) five rounds of .38 Special is better bet than 8 rounds of .22WMR. It's not for everyone, but unusual designs are never intended to have mass appeal.

    Does it actually fire from only one bbl at a time? I'm just going by this write up which says it fires off both bbls at the same time.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It makes no difference. Read the definition that you posted regarding machineguns. I'll wait....[time out for a shot of rye]...Okay.



    (b) Machinegun
    The term ??machinegun?? means any weapon
    which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be
    readily restored to shoot, automatically more
    than one shot, without manual reloading, by a
    single function of the trigger.

    This is a revolver and not an automatic pistol. The person pulling the trigger is providing all of the impetus to operate and fire the pistol's two firing mechanisms. There is no "automatic" action of any kind taking place. Because of the amount of force needed for two complete firing mechanisms, the trigger is specifically designed for use with two fingers. The top finger releases a Glock-style safety, and then the combined strength of the two fingers provides a better trigger pull than you might expect.
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  • buschmasterbuschmaster Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think I would like it if they shortened the grip to 2 fingers instead of 3, put an actual trigger guard on it, got rid of the silly double-U trigger, and chambered it for .327 magnum. then I think it would look sort of badass.

    single shot of course.
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  • montanajoemontanajoe Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 60,234 ******
    edited November -1
    I'm gonna get one in .40 S&W,,,
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  • 11b6r11b6r Member Posts: 16,584 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mark Christian nailed it. The ATF makes reference to a "volley gun", where more than 1 barrel is fired by it's own firing pin- and is NOT a machinegun.
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  • roswellnativeroswellnative Member Posts: 10,195 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So you can shoot ?Snake Eyes?
    Although always described as a cowboy, Roswellnative generally acts as a righter of wrongs or bodyguard of some sort, where he excels thanks to his resourcefulness and incredible gun prowesses.
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  • Smitty500magSmitty500mag Member Posts: 13,623 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Winchester Model 1897 and 1912 pump shotguns you only have to pull the trigger once and hold it down and pump it until it's six 12 Ga. 00 Buck shells are empty. Does that make them a machine gun? I don't know but the German's sure thought they were when our Dough Boys jumped in the trenches with them and cleaned them out. :mrgreen:

    The German's even BO0-HOOed and issued a diplomatic protest to the war cancel over those mean old shotguns as being inhumane. The same people that were using mustard gas and flame throwers on us and the allies were protesting about pump shotguns being used on them. Well BOO f'ning HOO there Adolf! General Black Jack Pershing said stuff that protest up your sorry flatulent * Adolf! :lol::lol:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZkJpsl4wY
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  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    drobs wrote:
    I see 2 triggers on that revolver.


    If they technically count the "blade style safety" on the top portion of the trigger as a second trigger that would make sense. Perhaps that is why they have the double length trigger, with out the second curve it might not qualify as two triggers.
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  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    drobs wrote:
    I see 2 triggers on that revolver.


    If they technically count the "blade style safety" on the top portion of the trigger as a second trigger that would make sense. Perhaps that is why they have the double length trigger, with out the second curve it might not qualify as two triggers.
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  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    mark christian wrote:
    It makes no difference. Read the definition that you posted regarding machineguns. I'll wait....[time out for a shot of rye]...Okay.



    (b) Machinegun
    The term ??machinegun?? means any weapon
    which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be
    readily restored to shoot, automatically more
    than one shot, without manual reloading, by a
    single function of the trigger.

    This is a revolver and not an automatic pistol. The person pulling the trigger is providing all of the impetus to operate and fire the pistol's two firing mechanisms. There is no "automatic" action of any kind taking place. Because of the amount of force needed for two complete firing mechanisms, the trigger is specifically designed for use with two fingers. The top finger releases a Glock-style safety, and then the combined strength of the two fingers provides a better trigger pull than you might expect.

    The firing of both rounds does happen automatically with a single trigger pull, does it not? So far as I know, automatically in this context is not a term that distinguishes between actions (automatic vs. revolver), but rather is a descriptor of whether there is manual intervention required or not. To me it seems clear based on the qualifying clause "without manual reloading".


    But who knows. This is the ATF we're talking about after all, and they have consistently been inconsistent in how they interpret their own rules.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
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  • yoshmysteryoshmyster Member Posts: 22,059 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I was at Safeway glancing over the new Recoil magazine where a bit of twisted wire coat hanger was registered as a machinegun part. So who know anything can be called as is today?
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