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chain saw pros chime in

bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
edited September 2019 in General Discussion
ok, im not a total dummy, so bare with me.
this is a classic 64cc 18" craftsman saw.
I did all the traditional checks.
air filter cleaned.
gas mixture ok.
oil in bar tank.
gapped the plug.
new plug.
clutch is fine.


this is the issue.
it starts just fine.
idles just fine.
revs at full trigger just fine.
the minute you put it to wood, it dogs out under load.
dies.
let it sit a minute.
starts again idles again.
dogs under load on wood.

q:
wrong plug?
bad gas?
ideas?
Retired Naval Aviation
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
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    jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 25,688 ******
    edited November -1
    I never had one do that. does it begin to cut and then bog or bogs soon as it touches wood?
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    bustedkneebustedknee Member Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Its a Craftsman.
    I can't believe they misspelled "Pork and Beans!"
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,400 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    Dirty fuel filter, or dirty/clogged high speed jet in carb. It is supplying enough fuel to freespool the engine, but not enough to carry the the engine under load. Replace fuel filter. If that doesn't cure it, rebuild the carb.
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    KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Top end shot/gone. Check the compression.

    After spending the cost of a new saw last year to have both mine looked at, that is what i was told. (After) spending the $$ on "repair/evaluation."

    They worked fine on start up, remotely get warmed up/under load - died. "No replacement parts." Can't complain though, for what I paid for them, I used the snot out of them cutting much firewood up North. Got my $$'s worth out of them.

    Ended up buying a new saw at a good deal on Black Friday from Tractor Supply.

    Cost me less than having both my old saws "repaired."





    Jltrent is your Guy. He should be along at some point.
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    Cornflk1Cornflk1 Member Posts: 3,715 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Horse Plains Drifter wrote:
    Dirty fuel filter, or dirty/clogged high speed jet in carb. It is supplying enough fuel to freespool the engine, but not enough to carry the the engine under load. Replace fuel filter. If that doesn't cure it, rebuild the carb.


    Sounds like a solution to me. Fuel filter first, make a hook on the end of a wire, fish it out of the tank. Shouldn't be very expensive.
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    RIA10MMRIA10MM Member Posts: 226 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ken, what brand did you buy?
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    KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RIA10MM wrote:
    Ken, what brand did you buy?

    Old saws were a well used Poulan Pro, and an equally well used McCullough.


    New Saw is a 55cc Paulin Pro with a 22" bar. $99 reg $179. Black Friday deal only.

    I paid probably $99 for my last (smaller) Paulin Pro. McCullogh was larger, probably $150-$175 ish.

    Again - for what I paid for them, they cut a crapload of wood. I definately got my $$ worth out of them.


    Only felt screwed when I tried to have both of them checked out/repaired. When taken back in after about 20 minutes worth of use? "Well, yes we did notice the compression was low on both of them."

    Well then, why not freakin' call me before attempting a repair? :o
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    bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    it will cut about 5" into wood and then slowly dog out. rrrrup ruuuup ruuuuuup.
    its a 2002. its got me thru 5 hurricanes. man it was a work horse.
    I just had the filter changed. the filter and fuel line is new.
    im going to look at the jet issue.
    what about the carb crank seal? how can I pin point that if it is?
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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    jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 25,688 ******
    edited November -1
    Oh, check that your muffler isn?t clogged.
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    RIA10MMRIA10MM Member Posts: 226 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bobski,
    I have a new Oregon (2) saw chain pack (S62) 91 low profile.
    18? Craftman, Poulan Pro.
    If it?s compatible let me know.
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    bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mufflers good.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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    varianvarian Member Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if the crank seals are bad its not worth fooling with. if you are interested in an opinion, get you a mid level husqvarna, they will last the average homeowner a long time. yeah Stihl is very good but not everyone needs a $600 saw for occasional use.
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    GilWilson1GilWilson1 Member Posts: 182 ✭
    edited November -1
    Difference being I've let a Sthil set up for months and crank right up, others not so much
    varian wrote:
    if the crank seals are bad its not worth fooling with. if you are interested in an opinion, get you a mid level husqvarna, they will last the average homeowner a long time. yeah Stihl is very good but not everyone needs a $600 saw for occasional use.
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    varianvarian Member Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    you are mostly right with that statement Mr. Wilson and having worked on hundreds of those carbs i cant quite figure that out. they are all pretty much the same and many times the same brand. the way i solve that problem is by starting any 2 stroke motor i own every couple of months to keep fresh gas in the system, and no fuel with alcohol period.
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    76k2076k20 Member Posts: 643 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Try adjusting both the low and high speed jets in the carb. I had the same issue this spring with one of my saws, adjusting the jets cleared the problem up.
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    Quick&DeadQuick&Dead Member Posts: 1,466 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Trash it and get a Stihl ;)
    The government has no rights. Only the people have rights which empowers the government.
    We have enough gun laws, what we need is IDIOT control.
    Blood makes you related. Loyalty makes you family.

    I thought getting old would take longer. :shock:
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    buschmasterbuschmaster Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    needs a carburetor adjustment. take it into a shop, let them fiddle with it. will be running like a champ when you get it back.
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    chiefrchiefr Member Posts: 13,800 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    KenK/84Bravo wrote:
    Top end shot/gone. Check the compression.

    After spending the cost of a new saw last year to have both mine looked at, that is what i was told. (After) spending the $$ on "repair/evaluation."

    They worked fine on start up, remotely get warmed up/under load - died. "No replacement parts." Can't complain though, for what I paid for them, I used the snot out of them cutting much firewood up North. Got my $$'s worth out of them.

    Ended up buying a new saw at a good deal on Black Friday from Tractor Supply.

    Cost me less than having both my old saws "repaired."





    Jltrent is your Guy. He should be along at some point.



    Yep, all the minutia tune-up stuff accomplished and you still have the problem, sounds like pistons/rings to me. Seen a number of 2-cycles suffer similar early death because not enough oil added to the mix.
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    castingcasting Member Posts: 110 ✭
    edited November -1
    You-Tube it. There's some guy on there who starts all his clips with a beer. He's Canadian. He gives lots of detail.
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    buschmasterbuschmaster Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    if it's not smoking (more than a chainsaw...) I don't think it's the piston rings.

    if you think it's the piston rings or head gasket, try a compression test. or is it too easy to pull start. (low compression)
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    HessianHessian Member Posts: 248 ✭
    edited November -1
    A couple of ideas you can check quick. If the guide bar groove is gummed up the chain can get overtight as soon as you try to cut. When it bogs check the chain tension, clean out the chain guide grooves. Guide cleaning tools are cheap.

    The chain drive links come in different sizes (widths) a mismatch between the thickness of the chain drive link and the chain guide groove can cause similar issues. Too small and the chain guide grooves get clogged and the chain binds, to thick and the chain binds. Same thing can happen when you use the wrong chain 3/8 or .325, usually makes a wierd sound, kind of a crunching sound.

    Especially on long chain guides, there is a roller on the working end of the chain guide. The axle for the roller can wear through. Many chains have an oil hole to lube the roller.

    Edit: Almost forgot, check the insides of the clutch, burnt wood/carbon and Tar /Pine Tar can cause the clutch to stick and/or bind.
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    buschmasterbuschmaster Member Posts: 14,229 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yeah, when the bar/sprocket are clogged or dry of oil you start to see sparks. long before it's bad enough to stop the engine, that would have to be pretty bad.
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,400 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    bobski wrote:
    what about the carb crank seal? how can I pin point that if it is?

    The proper way to test the crankcase seals, is with a vacuum pump. Pull a vacuum on the crankcase(I don't know what the spec. is)and see if it holds vacuum.

    The logger way is to start the saw, and make sure it is idling good. Tip the saw starter side up, then clutch side up, then upside down. If the idle stays fairly steady the seals are most likely good. If the idle gets erratic(saw leans out, and engine speeds up)there is a seal leaking.
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    HessianHessian Member Posts: 248 ✭
    edited November -1
    buschmaster wrote:
    yeah, when the bar/sprocket are clogged or dry of oil you start to see sparks. long before it's bad enough to stop the engine, that would have to be pretty bad.

    I had it happen to me once, axle fell out and it took me a while to figure it out, the guide bar wore really badly near the tip and was smoking, caused a lot of drag on the chain.
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    kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,985 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't suppose you have a very dull chain or bent bar?
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    MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 13,801 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "it will cut about 5" into wood and then slowly dog out. rrrrup ruuuup ruuuuuup"

    Check the gas cap vent.
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    jrentjrent Member Posts: 89 ✭
    edited August 2019
    My handle use to be jltrent as it has changed. I couldn't get jltrent to work after 19 years of my BS so started out new. I feel like a new person now.

    That should be an easy fix as I have worked on them for years. A lot of good ideals so far. As mention compression could be borderline, tank vent issue, muffler clogged, high side of carb adjustment needs a little more fuel or less fuel, a couple times I have ran into the fuel line and or impulse line having a very small hole or not fitting up well cause this issue or similar.. If it idles correct that eliminates some as a saw with an air leak will idle erratic. Without the saw in hand it is hard to eliminate some of these as issues.. With all of these it is either a gas, air, mechanical issue and the first thing is to hone in and eliminate and then start going after the path.

    I have to add a little saw porn as I bought out a closed sawmills parts/junk saws and so far got these back in great shape and a couple more close to finished.

    Here are 6 Stihl MS660/066/064s completed in great shape as I have two more not in the picture completed and two more in the rebuild process. Talk about power as in the parts I had several OEM dual port mufflers and a few small enhancements I made, these will rock and roll. It takes a man to handle these cutting and start with the high compression.

    KK3G3kH.jpg
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    KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 12,055 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jrent wrote:
    That should be an easy fix as I have worked on them for years. A lot of good ideals so far. As mention compression could be borderline, tank vent issue, muffler clogged, high side of carb adjustment needs a little more fuel or less fuel, a couple times I have ran into the fuel line and or impulse line having a very small hole or not fitting up well cause this issue or similar.. If it idles correct that eliminates some as a saw with an air leak will idle erratic. Without the saw in hand it is hard to eliminate some of these as issues.. With all of these it is either a gas or air issue and the first thing is to hone in and eliminate one of them and then start going after the path.

    I have to add a little saw porn as I bought out a closed sawmills parts/junk saws and so far got these back in great shape and a couple more close to finished.

    Here are 6 Stihl MS660/066/064s completed in great shape as I have two more not in the picture completed and two more in the rebuild process. Talk about power as in the parts I had several OEM dual port mufflers and a few small enhancements I made, these will rock and roll.

    KK3G3kH.jpg




    Nice!

    I used a MS660 with a monster bar (30-32"?) at the sawmill I worked at for for a couple years, as a Heavy Equipment Operator (Volvo Grapple loader.) about 5 years ago. It was a beast.

    What do you do with all the saws you repair Sir? Sell any? I am not too far from you.
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    ChrisStreettChrisStreett Member Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ...reading this with interest. I have an old 026 with similar issues (Sentimental value, a gift from my deceased brother.) I'd about given up on it as too expensive to fix, but will check out a few of these suggestions. Maybe it's not quite as worn out as I thought. Thanks guys.
    "...dying ain't much of a living boy"-Josey Wales
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    jrentjrent Member Posts: 89 ✭
    edited November -1
    ChrisStreett wrote:
    ...reading this with interest. I have an old 026 with similar issues (Sentimental value, a gift from my deceased brother.) I'd about given up on it as too expensive to fix, but will check out a few of these suggestions. Maybe it's not quite as worn out as I thought. Thanks guys.
    One of the best, check the PTO side and the smaller flywheel oil seal as they are common to leak after years. Pull the muffler and see what the piston looks like.
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    ChrisStreettChrisStreett Member Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Will do. Thanks. During a cursory check awhile back the piston looked good, no scoring, etc. The saw was running strong clearing fire trails in -10*/20* weather and all of a sudden it went "weak" on me. It'd start a little hard, once running it'd idle fine, good throttle response but as soon as it was put under load it'd bog out and die. I'll definitely give your suggestion a look. I really liked that saw. The newer one is ok, just not the same to me.
    "...dying ain't much of a living boy"-Josey Wales
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    jrentjrent Member Posts: 89 ✭
    edited November -1
    KenK/84Bravo wrote:




    Nice!

    I used a MS660 with a monster bar (30-32"?) at the sawmill I worked at for for a couple years, as a Heavy Equipment Operator (Volvo Grapple loader.) about 5 years ago. It was a beast.

    What do you do with all the saws you repair Sir? Sell any? I am not too far from you.
    [/quote]
    So far I just collect as I probably have enough if all were put into service to wipe out what is left of the Amazon rain forest...
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    bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ill try the tipping thing.
    btw....my backup saw is a stihl pro260. it started smoking in the clutch today. great. took off the cover and took off the bell housing and parts fell out. the clutch springs broke. 2 out of 3. and, somethings gotta be missing. the bell housing isn't tight on the shaft. it wiggles bad like a shim is missing. any ideas?
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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    Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,400 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    bobski wrote:
    ill try the tipping thing.
    btw....my backup saw is a stihl pro260. it started smoking in the clutch today. great. took off the cover and took off the bell housing and parts fell out. the clutch springs broke. 2 out of 3. and, somethings gotta be missing. the bell housing isn't tight on the shaft. it wiggles bad like a shim is missing. any ideas?
    Yep, there's a needle bearing between that and the crankshaft. See the parts in the link below. BTW that part is the clutch drum.


    https://www.baileysonline.com/chainsaws/chainsaw-parts/drive-sprockets-systems.html

    Here are clutch parts: https://www.baileysonline.com/chainsaws/chainsaw-parts/clutch-assemblies-springs-parts.html?p=2
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    bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yep, it musta fell out in the grass. I ran a magnet over the grass...no luck. its gone. as well as the oil pump thingy on top. off to the dealer.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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    bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,868 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well snap, there goes my husky weedwhacker.

    man when it rans it pours. wont idle more than 15 seconds on 1/2 choke. when I pull the trigger all the way itll start but only run and max full open. second I let off the trigger, wump wump wump. puttt. dies. its like only the high end works and low end doesnt.
    ideas?
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jtrent that is a beautiful sight! I love the Stihl, I have a 30 year old 039. Love Husqvarna too.


    TWVqVq3l.jpg
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    jrentjrent Member Posts: 89 ✭
    edited November -1
    allen griggs wrote:
    jtrent that is a beautiful sight! I love the Stihl, I have a 30 year old 039. Love Husqvarna too.


    TWVqVq3l.jpg
    That 346xp is one nice saw. I currently have 2 and at least 30 350 s which is almost the same saw. I have a couple 350 s with 346xp cylinders/pistons mounted, is just like running a 346xp great chain speed and trigger response.
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    allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,254 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I love that 346. With the 18 inch bar it is perfect for carpentry, I did all the dovetail notches on my log cabin with that saw.

    I paid $624 for that saw, new, back 5 years ago.
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    jrentjrent Member Posts: 89 ✭
    edited November -1
    Here are my 2 346xp 50cc version as I use to have 2 more and sold for a pretty good price as these are hot little saws. I will take them any day over the newer auto tune saws.

    IpiORsu.jpg
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