ammo/primed brass/handgun shipping ???

toad67

Can primed brass be shipped with a handgun? Can primed brass be shipped with loaded ammo if labeled ORM-D? I know the regulations for shipping each item separate, but was not sure how the primed brass part worked into the equation. TIA.

Todd

mark christian

Primed brass is considered to be loaded ammunition. It cannot be shipped with any firearm, handgun or not, but it can be shipped in a properly marked package along with other loaded ammunition.

11b6r

And please note that Mr. Christian did say SHIPPED. Brass can be sent by US mail, but PRIMED brass, primers and loaded cartridges may not be mailed in the US Mail. FedEx or UPS GROUND.

toad67

I find it confusing that under CFR 49, section 172.102, on page 312, special provision 50, it states that primed cases are not regulated for domestic transportation.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol2-sec172-102.pdf

They should be marked SP-50, thus no ORM-D labeling is required because it is not small arms ammunition.

toad67

mrmike08075 wrote:

I will note that often a cased handgun (wooden presentation case felt lined with dividers) get shipped with the loaded ammo still inside...

I do recognize that many are antiques or pre 1898 or are C&R eligible

However I have received handguns shipped with loaded ammo in the above referenced manner - once from a distributor.

I am pretty certain the letter of the law and spirit of the law prohibit such practices.

I have also seen Flint locks and percussion black powder guns (original and replica) in wooded cases shipped with the ammo components included.

I would invite comments on this from our experts.

My understanding was no exceptions - zero - ever.

Mike

Agree 100% that "ammo" can't be shipped with a gun. I was asking about primed brass only, no powder or projectiles involved.

toad67

toad67 wrote:

I find it confusing that under CFR 49, section 172.102, on page 312, special provision 50, it states that primed cases are not regulated for domestic transportation.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2010-title49-vol2/pdf/CFR-2010-title49-vol2-sec172-102.pdf

Thus no ORM-D labeling is required.

Packages should be marked "SP-50"

toad67

No offense taken Mike at all MM. After Mark answered my question, my next post was not to challenge him, or 11b6r in terms of being "King of the Mtn" so to speak, but rather to see what the correct answer is. I can find proof that primed cases are not considered ORM-D or hazmat, but I can't find the definite answer that I can, or can't ship them with a hand gun. I have 2 XP-100 pistols that I want to list, and they both have a bunch of primed new brass and dies with them. Was trying to figure out if it would be cheaper for me to go thru my FFL with the gun, and ship the brass and dies separately, or just ship them all together myself thru UPS or Fedex..

mrmike08075 wrote:

Toad,

I did not mean to confuse the issue or highjack your thread...

And I did not wish to seem to be in disagreement with Mark Christian.

Often when someone asks for clarification on a certain issue - I have seen or witnessed what might be flaws in the way others perceive or interpret the rule of law - I pose the question in order to hear what those I respect here see what I perceived as a flaw in how one might behave...

More as a cautionary tale and for my own education - when I get to see the issue through the eyes of those better informed it helps put things in perspective.

I simply meant to add on to or continue or more fully explore a connected ancillary issue - that many may not have considered.

Your OP got my hamster wheel spinning and I found it thought provoking - I do not dismiss the interpretation referenced above - sometimes I can see in my minds eye or have witnessed honest mistakes or deliberate dodges or possible pitfalls and you guys always provide good debate and doctoral thesis level cogent responses.

I know I can be a pain in the behind - that was not my intent.

Mike

mark christian

Here it is, and I can't be more clear than this:

Common carriers such as UPS, consider primed brass the be loaded ammunition and they specifically prohibit shipping ammunition with firearms, whether or not that ammunition is chambered for the gun. You can pour through 312 pages of federal regulations, but I don't have any reason to lie to you about this.

https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-center/packaging-and-supplies/special-care-shipments/hazardous-materials/shipping-ammunition.page

You seem to be a real regulations bookworm, so if you check 49 C.F.R. ? 173.59 which lists dozens of categories of what UPS determines to be loaded ammunition, you will clearly find mention of Cases, cartridge, empty with primer. Articles consisting of a cartridge case made from metal, plastics or other non-flammable materials, in which only the explosive component is the primer.

If someone in our forum can provide you with a better answer to your question about shipping ammunition with firearms, more power to them...because I'm done.