An interesting article on farming equipment and big agra business

bpost

This article takes a few minutes to read but is well worth the time.  I see two problems here; number one issue to me is Government interference in emissions forcing the machine to shut down if a fault is detected coupled with the unholy alliance of big bucks business with elected masters essentially turning the "owner" in to a glorified renter of the equipment.  If you buy it you should own it.  If you want to run it to the redline and beyond that is your business and none of Deere's or Gubmint's.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-03-05/farmers-fight-john-deere-over-who-gets-to-fix-an-800-000-tractor

pulsarnc

The struggle is real . I know several farmers who no longer buy new equipment due to this issue . It is not just the big stuff , the controls are creeping down to the small 20 to 40 hp tractor range . Sucks having to go to the dealer for everything !

spasmcreeksrun

deere started forcing dealers to toe the line years ago.....deere wanted "agri-malls on the prairie".....mattered not if the farmer had to drive long distances to get parts/service.....several dealers here just quit because of it....about 40 years ago local dealer was told pay for  new computer system or close the doors.....not sure but i think shop rate is now about $100 an hour   and to be forced to take the Tier 4 emissions crap on a small utility tractor is ridiculous.....JD  has  computer programs for repairs that are not allowed to independent repair shops....

Don McManus

Double edged sword.
Efficiency improvements are real.  Litigiousness is real.  To compete, you need to produce equipment that will give the demanded efficiency, much of which involves sophisticate controls. Today this includes significant use of GPS guidance of equipment.  While many farmers are no doubt qualified to repair much of what they own, if they screw up a guidance program that kills someone, Deere is on the hook.  Emissions standards demanded by government (wrt to the tier 4 noted above) cannot legally be overridden by the owner.  

To the greatest degree, therefore, it is government through imposition of emissions standards and an irresponsible tort system that is causing the problem, not equipment manufacturers.

Junkballer

spasmcreeksrun said:

deere started forcing dealers to toe the line years ago.....deere wanted "agri-malls on the prairie".....mattered not if the farmer had to drive long distances to get parts/service.....several dealers here just quit because of it....about 40 years ago local dealer was told pay for  new computer system or close the doors.....not sure but i think shop rate is now about $100 an hour   and to be forced to take the Tier 4 emissions crap on a small utility tractor is ridiculous.....JD  has  computer programs for repairs that are not allowed to independent repair shops....

Yes Sir, JD wanted everything new, shop, building, showroom, location, all to their specs, etc. etc.  It was their way or the highway and you lose the franchise.......piss on them. I could go on & on about them but I'll stop now.

dcon12

Junkballer said:

spasmcreeksrun said:

deere started forcing dealers to toe the line years ago.....deere wanted "agri-malls on the prairie".....mattered not if the farmer had to drive long distances to get parts/service.....several dealers here just quit because of it....about 40 years ago local dealer was told pay for  new computer system or close the doors.....not sure but i think shop rate is now about $100 an hour   and to be forced to take the Tier 4 emissions crap on a small utility tractor is ridiculous.....JD  has  computer programs for repairs that are not allowed to independent repair shops....

Yes Sir, JD wanted everything new, shop, building, showroom, location, all to their specs, etc. etc.  It was their way or the highway and you lose the franchise.......piss on them. I could go on & on about them but I'll stop now.

Have you been out to Flints new JD showroom? I always feel I need a suit to enter! Don

Junkballer

I know the feeling, it's now a Yuppie hang-out 

mac10

if ya fix cars now ya need a 5000.00 code reader that you pay every year to upgrade

mogley98

Briefly SC had a UL requirement that effectively said you had to use the manufacturer of the fire panel to service it, Healthcare organizations push back to DHEC was that they were forcing us to use the proprietary source and this allowed them to charge anything they wanted. DHEC folded but essentially since the manufacturer owns the controlling software most competitors can't provide FULL services for someone else's equipment. Sticky wicket

serf

 In Britain, they cutting out the tax break on red diesel.How long do you think they will wait until the politicians do it here? After the next election I bet. And you can't work on farm equipment now if a computer ECM is involved either.

                                                serf

         https://www.carbonbrief.org/daily-brief/rishi-sunak-budget-chancellor-to-cut-red-diesel-subsidy

The Times says he is “preparing new environment taxes” including restrictions on the “red diesel” used by some off-road vehicles and machinery, for which the chancellor is expected to cut subsidies.

                                

               

spasmcreeksrun

years ago i stopped at two HD cycle shops and was treated like a street bum....could have written a check for any item they had......never went back ...EVER....last ride was an aspencade special edition with a digital dash and air ride.. and every accessory one could bolt on....hiway sweet

spasmcreeksrun

tax on clear diesel is for road and bridge maintenance and improvement.....red no tax diesel is for farm machine use....but.....amish and mennonite burn up the roads on tractors and are NEVER stopped...saw one of these hauling down a federal highway with used tires with the sidewall cut off and stretched over the drive tires so the blacktop would not wear  the good ones   

Wild Turkey

I was farming with my dad when John Deere made that "build new building out of town or get out" and local dealer saw the writing on the wall and got out.
Dealers at nearby towns built the new building.  Within 5 years the doors were locked.  
Dad went min-till and rented Case tractors as needed with the understanding that if something broke they would immediately send a replacement.  Worked well for him -- he was renting a 2wd 190 hp tractor that was notorious for busting a hydralic line and dumping 20+ gallons of expensive fluid on the ground so dealer was out hauling costs, repair costs (had to split the tractor to fix the line) and fluid costs.

That migh work with the new JD situation.  Rent it and if it goes down it's on them to get you running again.  
JD isn't taking the risk -- the farmer is.  This situation won't last long.

Junkballer

What made John Deere was the fact years ago JD was designed for farmers themselves to work on,  away from any shop, remove a panel if one was blocking access (very few panels existed on units) and remove what needed replacing or servicing without needing any specialized tools, everything was accessible and easy to get to. Back then JD engineers actually went out on the factory floor with a handful of simple tools and removed/replaced parts themselves to make sure work areas was accessible, if not they redesigned it then and there.............NOT so today, they learned new tricks from the auto industry.

Horse Plains Drifter

Junkballer said:...

Yes Sir, JD wanted everything new, shop, building, showroom, location, all to their specs, etc. etc.  It was their way or the highway and you lose the franchise.......piss on them. I could go on & on about them but I'll stop now.

Nothing new there, manufacturers have been doing that for years. Ford, GM, Caterpillar, the list goes on and on.

Mobuck

In the MidWest, JD business has become "big business" with single entities owning several locations. It somewhat spreads the load of owning the expensive specialty shop equipment and computer diagnostics.  Some locations will specialize in certain repair needs. Once a tractor is loaded on a semi, it's not a big deal to haul it another 50 miles to a different location. The bigger issue is the combines and applicators that don't haul well.
Last month, I had a 1980 JD tractor that needed some hydraulic work. Both dealerships I checked had only ONE technician who did all the repairs on "the older tractors". One place literally didn't want to work on my "old" tractor as they had a shop full of "yard and garden" size stuff they were prepping for summer use by the semi-urbanites.

chollagardens

First tractor is a John Deere. Found out about the you don't own it deal after I bought it. Second tractor is a Kubota. No one told me about the you don't own it we are letting you use it deal when I bought the John Deere. If I don't own it and I'm just using it then does John Deere not own my money but is just using it?

spasmcreeksrun

looking back on a lifetime of farming till i wore most of me out.....seems i sold everything wholesale and bought everything retail ??????   

Don McManus

Flying Clay Disk said:

Don McManus said:

...
To the greatest degree, therefore, it is government through imposition of emissions standards and an irresponsible tort system that is causing the problem, not equipment manufacturers.

While this is true, it would sure help if JD was on the farmer's side...rather than running around dumping bucket loads of sand in everyone's Vaseline and cackling all the way to the bank!!

While that would be nice, FCD, if farmer Brown re-programmed his GPS guidance system and ran his tractor through a Day-Care at nap time, it would be John Deere on the hook for $10s of millions, not him.

slinger

I can't believe the gov would pass this law without input from whoever benefits by it.

US Military Guy

Don McManus said:

Flying Clay Disk said:

Don McManus said:

...
To the greatest degree, therefore, it is government through imposition of emissions standards and an irresponsible tort system that is causing the problem, not equipment manufacturers.

While this is true, it would sure help if JD was on the farmer's side...rather than running around dumping bucket loads of sand in everyone's Vaseline and cackling all the way to the bank!!

While that would be nice, FCD, if farmer Brown re-programmed his GPS guidance system and ran his tractor through a Day-Care at nap time, it would be John Deere on the hook for $10s of millions, not him.

So the problem is lawyers and
not the farmer
or John Deere
or Day-Care centers?

It is starting to make sense now.  I believe I understand the problem.