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heat pump/ hvac questions

CaneyRiverDogCaneyRiverDog Member Posts: 147 ✭✭
in General Discussion
All my life I've lived in homes with natural gas as the heat source. My new place has electric only and wood stove. I've only been here a few months and the previous owner left some wood so Ive been using it. Now that its warming up I dont really need a raging fire to be comfy. So I decided to turn on heat.
Here's where the questions come. Are all electric hvac units "heat pumps"? If not what is a heat pump?
My gas hvac would kick on and the heat was instant out the vents. This thing Im not sure...lol  It was 63 in the house so I turned it on and set it to 66. Nothing happened in what I felt was a reasonable time, except it said HEAT on thermostat. So I bumped it up to 70. Cool air started coming out the vents but eventually the thermostat changed to AUX. HEAT. Is this normal? The outside fan came on and I went about my business for about 10 minutes. The house seemed to get warmer but house temp remained same on thermostat. I was concerned about the AUX. HEAT display so I turned heat off and turned the fan to ON and let it blow till the air from vents felt cold. Then I turned it off. 20 minutes later I turned the fan back to on and it never came back on so I turned it off and thought I'd ask you gentleman for your input.
Does any of this sound normal? Is this just the difference between gas and heat after all one degree bump on my gas units the heat would kick on. Not sure why I couldn't get fan to come back on. Whats difference in electric hvac and heat pump?

Thanks fellers!!!
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Comments

  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    . More than likely Aux heat is a heat strip for backup in real cold weather on your heat pump system. Most thermostats are having a 2-3 variance programmed in them to save on energy use from what I have experienced. Also, Natural gas is being demonized like coal very soon Here in The USA especially if democrats get in high political offices.
                                                           serf
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  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭✭
    I can only tell you from my experience. Most heat pumps have both heating and cooling. Without being technical one setting -  AC removes heat from the inside air and exhausts it outside. In heat mode it does the reverse. I have seen units with AC only that had a electric heat option for mild climates when heat is not often called for. This option works off a heating element and the compressor doesn't run, just the circulating fan does. If you do have a heat pump and not just AC then keep in mind the air coming out of the vents will not be as hot as a fuel type furnace. Mine runs about 86 degrees. If after 10 minutes or so the thermostat determines the unit is not warming the house fast enough it will kick on the backup heating element. Bob
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  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    The best way I can explain a heat pump is to take a window Air Conditioner and turn it around the wrong way. Now you essentially have a heat pump! In a unit they use reversing valve to perform that function :).

    A heat pump has a staged thermostat. You really want to set it and forget it type thing. If you push the t-stat up more than a couple degrees above the house temp you will kick on Aux heat.
    Heat pumps are much more efficient than electric heat. A heat pump using outside air as the medium to exchange heat is obviously only effective down to the mid 30's, after that it can't remove enough heat from the outside air to keep up and the second stage of heating will kick on IE: Aux heat now you are using electric heat strips.


    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
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  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,529 ✭✭✭✭
    Turn the thermostat to Auto.. not fan. Set the thermostat to the temp you want either air conditioning or heat. Put the thermostat in either heat or cool.
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  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭
    No, that doesn't sound right.  When you set your thermostat to "heat", you should have gotten air that, at the minimum, was warm.  You need to have a professional check out your system.  Considering the cost of heat, it will be money well spent. 
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  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    KenK/84Bravo said:

    I am curious to the answer to this also. My electric heat pump (?) Sometimes only pumps out air that is not remotely warm. No matter how long it runs. (Forget about it if it is in the teens or lower.)

    Emergency Heat (Aux. Heat) used to do a little better. Had to have a "sandwich splice" placed on the heating element because a replacement could not be found. (90's Trane.) About a month or two ago my Emergency heat would no longer put out warm air. I suspect the sandwich splice or the heating element has a problem again. These things may be okay in GA or someplace south, but they suck up here in the mountains.

    Other times it puts out air that is somewhat warm.

      Heat is concentrated by the physics with high pressure gases to carry it to your indoor coil and the amount of heat it can find outdoors on your outside coil with fan. Buy a bigger oversized BTU Unit if you just want heat and it could solve your problem. And  with mini splits heat pumps you might be able to use oversized units and still get humidity out with A/c on. Ask an air conditioner engineer to be sure but They might not like having you comfortable the old fashion way when there was no global warming! :)
                                                                 serf

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  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,637 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    98 and others have that right.  All electric units are not heat pumps. Heat pumps will have a compressor unit outside your house just like a central A/C. By the description of your thermostat I think you do.  Your thermostat should be on "auto" or the fan will run whether the unit is heating or not. I have a propane backup.  If it's above 40 degrees outside the heat pump will keep the house to the set 73.  Below 40, the propane kicks in.  If it's above 40, your thermostat is in "auto", the compressor and fan are running, and the air isn't good and warm, you have a compressor problem.  Perhaps just low on freon like when your car A/C doesn't cool as it should.  
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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  • truthfultruthful Member Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭✭
    When we built 10 years ago, the fad in this area was to install a heat pump as the primary, with a gas furnace as the "auxiliary." Then the next fad was to install a ground-sourced heat pump, so-called "geothermal" as the only heat & cooling source. Well, we all soon learned that unless the outside temperature was 50F or above, the heat-pump was terrible. You could barely feel warmth from it.  Now everyone that got suckered into the "geothermal" fad are replacing those with a gas furnace. Live and learn, folks.
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  • spasmcreeksrunspasmcreeksrun Member Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭
    3 yeas ago i put in a new 95% efficient propane heat unit and larger ac combo  bolted into old unit....big old farm house....LUV the 130* air out of the vents....air in and out by plastic pipe to heat unit so old chimney is blocked
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  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 18,291 ✭✭✭✭
    truthful said:
    When we built 10 years ago, the fad in this area was to install a heat pump as the primary, with a gas furnace as the "auxiliary." Then the next fad was to install a ground-sourced heat pump, so-called "geothermal" as the only heat & cooling source. Well, we all soon learned that unless the outside temperature was 50F or above, the heat-pump was terrible. You could barely feel warmth from it.  Now everyone that got suckered into the "geothermal" fad are replacing those with a gas furnace. Live and learn, folks.

    Interesting a geo thermal should heat and cool based on the thermal exchange from the ground water temp, estimating 40-50 degrees year round and should do wonderful? Not sure why yours didn't but here in SC they work fantastic for heat since our ground water is never too cold to heat and they cool MUCH more efficiently since your are trading off heat to 50-55 degree water versus 90-95 degree air.
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
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  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 6,671 ✭✭✭✭
    mogley98 said:
    truthful said:
    When we built 10 years ago, the fad in this area was to install a heat pump as the primary, with a gas furnace as the "auxiliary." Then the next fad was to install a ground-sourced heat pump, so-called "geothermal" as the only heat & cooling source. Well, we all soon learned that unless the outside temperature was 50F or above, the heat-pump was terrible. You could barely feel warmth from it.  Now everyone that got suckered into the "geothermal" fad are replacing those with a gas furnace. Live and learn, folks.

    Interesting a geo thermal should heat and cool based on the thermal exchange from the ground water temp, estimating 40-50 degrees year round and should do wonderful? Not sure why yours didn't but here in SC they work fantastic for heat since our ground water is never too cold to heat and they cool MUCH more efficiently since your are trading off heat to 50-55 degree water versus 90-95 degree air.
    That's our experience here in Michigan. This house has had geothermal for forty years. We are on our second unit and have been more than happy with the performance. No natural gas nearby so we would have to install propane if we wanted to change. Comparing energy cost with propane users locally and depending on propane rates some winters we are a lot cheaper and some a little more expensive. In the summer it does save a lot on electricity usage because of both the temp of the water and it's much greater density carrying away more heat. Bob
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  • Toolman286Toolman286 Member Posts: 3,252 ✭✭✭✭
    Grew up with an oil or gas fired boiler & hot water baseboard heat. Now we have a heat pump with electric backup (aux heat.) If that's what you have, there will be a compressor outside (just like a whole-house AC unit.) The normal heat setting will only blow 85 degree air, which will feel cool. If you raise the thermostat more then 2 degrees up (or it is really cold out), the heating elements will come on. This eats a lot of electricity. Friends complain that propane backup is more expensive. I fire up the wood stove when it's below 30 for any length of time. People used to a true heating system will never get used to blowing tepid air & it will feel cooler then it really is. Just put it on heat, set the temperature & put the fan on auto. In the summer, switch it to cool.
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  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
    When we bought our home it has a heat pump with back up "emergency" heat furnace...which as stated is a strip and when it got below 40 it would use that portion because heat pumps do not perform well below 40.  It cost a fortune to run that electric emergency heat.   I replaced with with a hybrid system, heat pump with propane furnace.  NG isn't available in my area,  Winter time is typically the propane furnace.  I'm not a heat pump fan, especially on cool wet days.  Fortunately we have a fire place to keep the house feeling warm.
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  • CaneyRiverDogCaneyRiverDog Member Posts: 147 ✭✭
    Toolman286 said:
    Grew up with an oil or gas fired boiler & hot water baseboard heat. Now we have a heat pump with electric backup (aux heat.) If that's what you have, there will be a compressor outside (just like a whole-house AC unit.) The normal heat setting will only blow 85 degree air, which will feel cool. If you raise the thermostat more then 2 degrees up (or it is really cold out), the heating elements will come on. This eats a lot of electricity. Friends complain that propane backup is more expensive. I fire up the wood stove when it's below 30 for any length of time. People used to a true heating system will never get used to blowing tepid air & it will feel cooler then it really is. Just put it on heat, set the temperature & put the fan on auto. In the summer, switch it to cool.
    I figured I was just used to the natural gas heat. My old house on a weekend morning when the heat would really kick on you could almost light a cigarette off the registers. I knew electric didn't get that hot but wasn't sure why it wouldn't blow warm air when thermostat said HEAT. It was rainy that day and about 40 degrees in the house. I went back and looked and home inspection papers and he said that he didn't check heat because of temperature. He inspected the home late September which was still close to 90 degrees then,,,,,, I guess I was just paranoid because its always my luck to have something go wrong,,,, and nothings broke here lately.

    Thanks fellers
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  • CaneyRiverDogCaneyRiverDog Member Posts: 147 ✭✭
    It is an outside unit that looks just like my old gas hvac unit. Its less than 5 years old. There's another filter that is a 25x25x2" (I think) and some UV lights under the house that's connected to the return. So as the air is drawn into the inside house filter it goes down under house and through that thicker filter then by some UV lights. Supposedly the wife had terrible allergies of some sort. The owner was a giant douchebag as another reason why I figured I got hosed.

    Thanks for your help guys you always come through!!
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  • pulsarncpulsarnc Member Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭✭

    Switched to a heat pump this past November after a lifetime of oil , gas and wood heat . Took a long time to get used to the fact that it felt “ cooler “ than what I was used to . Even though the temp read 69 degrees it felt colder than that . Eventually we adapted to it . So far my electric costs have averaged about $200 a month , only about 60 more than when I was running a gas pack . So far I am happy

    cry Havoc and let slip  the dogs of war..... 
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  • chmechme Member Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭✭
    An older heat pump only gets about a 20 degree rise in the air temp between air it pulls into the return vent, and what it delivers out of the delivery vent.  Say your house is 65- air coming out of the vent would be 85.  It IS warmer- but you are 98.6- it will FEEL cool to your skin.  As the man said, set the thermostat, and leave it alone.  Move it several degrees at once, the backup electric strip heat kicks in.  $$$$$


    We got a new heat pump 1 year ago, and it DOES put out warm air- but the older ones did not.  Do yourself a favor and either clean or replace your filters about once a month.  
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  • serfserf Member Posts: 9,217 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2020
     Nature gas is going to be demonized, just like diesel fuel is heading for now. The engineers are saying it's usage to use open gas heaters in a house now is dangerous and pollutes the environment. A heat pump is going to be the only way to build with here in the gulf coastal regions of the south. It will be mandatory in the building codes soon. Especially if Democrats are the majority in your area. Methane is why they hate it. It;s a greed house gas if it leaks into environment without it burning.Methane (CH4) is estimated to have a GWP of 28–36 over 100 year.While CO2 is 1.
                                                                    serf
    https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/understanding-global-warming-potentials

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