Italy "death panels"

sxsnuf

If you're over 80 and catch  "wuflu" in Italy, you can kiss your * goodbye.
Doctors have determined that over 80 patients are not deserving of limited resources, even in a country that "cherishes" it's elderly population. 
Sarah Palin will be proven right in this country, when all is said and done.
Wait and see.

shilowar

It is a practical matter, ultimately if the virus hits our country with the same intensity those same decisions will likely be made.  If you have 10,000 critical patients in need, and only 5000 ventilators do you use those ventilators on patients at the end of their lives and a high mortality rate, or do you use them on a younger patient with higher odds of survival?  The only difference with socialized medicine is the rate will be higher because they lack the quality, and numbers of machine because of a poorly designed medical system.   I bet those decisions are routinely made for organ transplants.  You have one organ to give, several patients that are matches, someone is making a decision who that organ is going to and I suspect age, proximity and potential for survival are all part of that calculation.   It's not much different then triage on the battle field.  You spend the resources on the ones that have the best chance of survival and Italy is overwhelmed and in a triage mindset.   

select-fire

Read the modeling link .

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/influential-coronavirus-pandemic-report-read-a-summary-of-the-staggering-projections-that-moved-us-government-to-act.html?fbclid=IwAR3vi6ggWDad1nQ6_goLGWDCO_WjC0QLNC2kYGvxD_9GrgrdTtFeRZf6Kgw

Rocky Raab

But, but...Italy has Universal Health Care. Wasn't that supposed to guarantee perfect health for all?

chiefr

Rocky Raab said:

But, but...Italy has Universal Health Care. Wasn't that supposed to guarantee perfect health for all?

Nailed it!!

 If people read the ACA in its entirety, they would fully understand the IPABs were for real!! Systematic of main stream medias close control by Obama and DEMOCRAT party, they failed to inform the people of this major factoid. 

 People should also note how the slimy media is not reporting number of deaths, lack of care facilities, and the failure of universal healthcare in the countries that have it. Instead slimy media and their DEMOCRAT handlers are using this crisis to mandate government control healthcare in here America 

Conversely South Korea had no government healthcare and they have reversed the number of new cases and a lower deaths rate.  

Lastly, Have to give Trump and GOP credit for dismantling pieces of the ACA, but there is more work to be done.

Junkballer

sxsnuf said:

Sarah Palin will be proven right in this country, when all is said and done.
Wait and see.

I must have missed or have forgotten what she said................what did she say ?

sxsnuf

Sarah Palin, former Republican Governor of Alaska, coined the term when she charged that proposed legislation would create a "death panel" of bureaucrats who would decide whether Americans—such as her elderly parents, or children with Down syndrome—were "worthy of medical care".

hobo9650

According to an article last night in Breitbart news, most of those that have died in Italy were older with had pre-existing issues.

Smitty500mag

shilowar said:

 If you have 10,000 critical patients in need, and only 5000 ventilators do you use those ventilators on patients at the end of their lives and a high mortality rate, or do you use them on a younger patient with higher odds of survival?  

First come first serve. If I'm 80 and I got there first and you take a machine and give it to somebody else that's when you would find your life would be shorter than mine.

Rocky Raab

hobo, that Breitbart report may be true - and only half the story. Because if they are deciding not to offer treatment to the elderly with pre-existing issues, then that's exactly who we'd expect to be dying from this. No?

chiefr

Smitty500mag said:

shilowar said:

 If you have 10,000 critical patients in need, and only 5000 ventilators do you use those ventilators on patients at the end of their lives and a high mortality rate, or do you use them on a younger patient with higher odds of survival?  

First come first serve. If I'm 80 and I got there first and you take a machine and give it to somebody else that's when you would find your life would be shorter than mine.

Smitty, that is exactly what the DEMOCRAT ACA death panels will do. Government bureaucrats will base decision on how much potential tax revenue one will generate.  A young person has much more potential tax value since he will continue to work and pay taxes much longer than a senior in their 80s.

 The media and even DEMOCRAT front group AARP has failed to inform their members this little factoid.  DEMOCRAT controlled AARP still supports the ACA. F AARP

mohawk600

I thought this whole thing was being blown out of proportion a week ago........and although I am not fearful for my own health, we are in deep * right now regarding the economy and health care system.

shilowar

us55840 said:

Please tell me if there is any difference between 'saving the life of an elderly person' or the wanton murder of an unborn/newborn child?
Since when is one life more precious than another?
I do find it just crazy some believe it's horrible older would be left to die while others can be murdered, legally.
  

It's backasswards world we live in.

shilowar

Smitty500mag said:

shilowar said:

 If you have 10,000 critical patients in need, and only 5000 ventilators do you use those ventilators on patients at the end of their lives and a high mortality rate, or do you use them on a younger patient with higher odds of survival?  

First come first serve. If I'm 80 and I got there first and you take a machine and give it to somebody else that's when you would find your life would be shorter than mine.

Good luck with that, by the time you find out you're in need of one you won't be capable of doing anything about it.

hobo9650

That baby is worth more to SOME for body parts.

Tech141

My local CVS has better health capability than Italy.

Beautiful country, and great people, but their government is third world.

shilowar

KenK/84Bravo said:

Personally, I am extremely apprehensive about will be taking place in the next month or two. Our Ventilator capacity is woefully inadequate. I will need one, based on my preexisting conditions.

It is going to get ugly about a month from now. I seriously hope that I am wrong, but I see the hammer dropping. Does not look good. From what I just read, (per Don Mc.) Our infection rate is higher than Italy, at the same pointbin time. Our Mortality rate is at 60% vs. 40% for Italy. That sounds pretty bad to me, considering that Italy is about the size and population as Arizona.

You do the math.

My co-workers wife is an ER Doc. She told him that that they anticipate that we are on the Italy curve, the calm before the storm not into the peak yet.  I agree with you, but I think it will be sooner. Like after 9/11 it was spooky quiet for about a week. we are coming out of that and people are already starting to get restless.  As things get shut down more and more, and liberties restricted the civil disobedience and violence will increase.   we've started putting officers at Krogers at their request because in the last few days they've observed customers getting more aggressive with staff and other customers over restrictions on purchases. Some Krogers in urban areas are experiencing violence, something the media appears to be ignoring.  PA's Governor has ordered the closure of all businesses (including gun shops) at 8pm tonight that are involved in life sustaining services. More to follow suit.  I've been told the VA Governor is mulling closing the interstates to tractor trailer traffic only, essentially banning travel across the state.  Schools will be canceled nation wide for the rest of the year, along with daycares, essentially putting single parents with out other resources out of work.  Unemployment is skyrocketing....  Whoever engineered this has changed the US forever going forward.   Every LE agency in our areas has cut back our services to essential response, with very lil proactive responses to limit public interactions.   brace for it.....

Roanoke just got it's first confirmed case, with over 165 outstanding tests results, 100 of which are healthcare workers at our largest hospital system.