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Why does NJ outlaw hollow point for concealed carry?
Mr. Perfect
Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
I suppose y'all have heard about that guy that was arrested for having hollow points (which are legal to have in NJ, just not in your carry weapon see here: https://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-hollowpoint.shtml). I think I remember seeing a post about it on here anyway (if folks don't know, here is a link to that story: https://www.ammoland.com/2020/03/nj-carry-licensed-security-guard-arrested-so-called-hollowpoint-ammo/#axzz6HuVjFYF6).
Regardless, the law is beyond ridiculous. And like with all ridiculous things there is little chance there was any sort of reasonable explanation for it. I suspect the law was made out of complete ignorance of science, physics, and public safety, but was rather borne out of fear and ignorance. But there must be some basis for the law, right? Someone didn't just dream up that hollow points bad, FMJ good, did they? I had heard it speculated they follow the NATO guidelines for ROE. Is there any truth to that?
Regardless, the law is beyond ridiculous. And like with all ridiculous things there is little chance there was any sort of reasonable explanation for it. I suspect the law was made out of complete ignorance of science, physics, and public safety, but was rather borne out of fear and ignorance. But there must be some basis for the law, right? Someone didn't just dream up that hollow points bad, FMJ good, did they? I had heard it speculated they follow the NATO guidelines for ROE. Is there any truth to that?
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Comments
Well the US never ratified the 1899 Hague Convention so Im not sure why we don’t use them in war.
NJ- What a ridiculous law.
To answer your question - "why?" Simple. You have to keep adding straws before you can break a camel's back.
I blame it on the water.
I think it probably has more to do with the need to penetrate barriers and light armor?
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
You would think LEO's in NJ would want hollow points to be used by exactly everyone, so as to eliminate their risk. Why wouldn't they lobby for it? I simply do not get it for that reason alone, but shouldn't they also be lobbying to change the law due to the possibility of over penetration? But they get to carry the good stuff, so they probably don't care.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The Limits of Optimism
New Jersey Man Faces Jail Time for Transporting an Antique Pistol
‘Idid break the law — to my shock,” Gordon Van Gilder tells me over the phone. He sighs. “Legally, they’re right.”
The “they” in this equation is the state of New Jersey. The “I” is Van Gilder, a 72-year-old retired schoolteacher from the town of Millville. And that “law-breaking”? Well, that could be extremely costly indeed. For transporting a 300-year-old flintlock pistol without a concealed-carry license, Van Gilder has been charged with a second-degree felony — specifically, with “unlawful possession of a handgun” — and he is facing a maximum of ten years in state prison. This, he suggests, is “unbelievable.”
Van Gilder’s ordeal began last November, when the car he was traveling in was pulled over by police. At the time, he and a friend were on their way back from a meeting with an antique dealer. “I’m very interested in the 18th century, both here and in Britain,” he tells me over the phone. “I’ve collected a lot of 18th-century items. I have some things from the Continental Army, including some personal documents — letters and so on. But I’m more interested in the things they made. My house is full of 18th-century furniture. I have little spoons, glassware. It’s an obsession of mine. I’m not a gun collector per se, but I think they’re interesting.”
The gun in question, Van Gilder says, “was probably made about 1765 in Belgium — for the British market.” A dealer found it in Pennsylvania, and held it for him. “I paid $800 for it. It’s a boxlock pistol, so there’s no hammer. It’s beautiful.”
Having picked the gun up, Van Gilder and his friend first went to lunch, and then they headed home. “My friend was driving because my arm is shot,” Van Gilder recalls. On the way home, the pair were pulled over by a local sheriff. According to Van Gilder, the detaining officer told him that he wanted to search the car, and threatened him with dogs if he refused. “I didn’t mind,” he tells me, but he wanted to make sure that the officer knew that there was a flintlock pistol in the glove compartment, and that he had just purchased it. “Oh, man,” Gilder says. “Immediately, he wanted to arrest me. But when he called the undersheriff, he was told, ‘No, it’s a 250-year-old pistol; let him go.’”
The officer did as he was told, and gave the pistol back. The next morning, however, he came back — “with three cars and three or four sheriffs.” Van Gilders says, “He told me, ‘I should have arrested you last night.’” So he did. “They led me away in handcuffs” and, at the station, “chained me by my hands and feet to a cold stainless-steel bench.”
“I’ve never been handcuffed in my life — or arrested, even,” Van Gilder explains. “I was embarrassed and ashamed. The only prisoner there was myself: a 72-year-old English teacher. I was really ashamed.”
Before long, Van Gilder had been charged and the gun had been taken away for “ballistics testing,” almost certainly never to be returned. (That the department believes that a ballistics test on a flintlock pistol can be useful should give you some indication of who we’re dealing with here.) “They’ve angered me,” Van Gilder concedes. “But technically, by New Jersey’s law, the officer was probably right.”
That, sadly, is true. Indeed, according to Van Gilder’s lawyer, Evan Nappen, Gordon has fallen foul of a “fundamental flaw” in New Jersey’s law. “Classifying this pistol as a weapon,” Nappen says, “is absolutely absurd. We’re talking about a crime that carries a minimum mandatory sentence of between three and a half and five years.”
#page#The federal government, Nappen notes, “doesn’t even consider this gun a weapon.” (By the terms of the 1968 Gun Control Act, few firearms manufactured prior to 1898 are subject to federal law.) “This is an original flintlock that predates the founding of the country, and was made before New Jersey’s laws were passed. But they’re treating it the same as if it were a .44 Magnum.” The idea that he was breaking a law, Nappen concludes, “never crossed Van Gilder’s mind. It’s an antique. He had no intention of shooting it. It wasn’t loaded. There was no flint, no powder, and no ball.”
Charges were dropped by the district attorney . No word if he got the gun back
The d-rats hide the fact that almost ALL gun crime emanates from their ruined demoncrap s*** holes so they have to blame Joe Smith from Main Street not triple felony daquan from MLK Blvd.
God forbid they should accuse the petulant pets of their destroyed city plantations who are doing 90% of the violence.
BTW the d-rat prosecutor dropped the charges quietly when the story went national. Why? Because it was a black man who was victimized by the clueless untrained politically corrupted PD.
The security guard was following all the regulations, The stupid cop did not know the law.
The man had Critical Defense IIRC with the plastic? plug in the nose which in NJ are NOT classified as HP.
NJ demonrat commies hate firearm owners. NJ firearm owners hate the d-rats.