If you were there...

Warbirds

Lets say you were personally a witness to the events leading to the death of George Floyd.

Lets say you are there, you are legally armed based upon the video what, of any action is appropriate?

I will share my thoughts soon- but want to hear from some of ya’ll first.

danielgage

arm chair quarterbacks always know what should have been done

hindsight is 20-20

I did wonder what I could have done

I don't think I could have pulled a gun on police

montanajoe

Plead with LEO on scene to stop
Call dispatch and request a supervisor to respond
Call next level up of LEO.  I.E. County,highway patrol.
I feel drawing on the cop would just add to the list of dead innocent men. 

I also feel, had I called dispatch or another agency, backup still probably would not arrive.  The officer(s) on scene would tell dispatch they are Code 4 (ok)  no need for further assist. I don't know.  I hope I would have tried to get involved. 

bpost

The bystanders did all they legally could to help the man.  The crowd was screaming at them to let him up, they screamed to check his pulse.  One guy offered to check for a pulse for them, he had training to do it.  They ignored him.  The Chinese looking cop stood guard with his hand on his mace ready to plaster anyone trying to intervene in the murder they were witnessing.  Being armed would not have done any bystanders a bit of good, the only outcome would be another death at the hands of the police from police bullets.  There are more cops pinning George to the ground, behind cover.  It would be suicide to pull a weapon on that group.

truthful

Okay. So the surveillance video shows George being cooperative,getting out of the car,waiting on the sidewalk, and being escorted across the street. Then, the next video shows him on the pavement with a knee on his neck. Why is there no video of what occurred causing George to be face down on the pavement with a knee on his neck? Or is there other video, but we don't get to see what happened when they reached the patrol car? Also, when he was on the pavement, all the video shows is his head and neck, all else is blocked by the patrol car. What else was happening but was blocked from the video? And, there were a number of people around, yelling, etc. I bet they all had phones with video camera capability. Why didn't one of those people video what happened to cause George to be on the pavement? And why didn't anyone go around to the other side of the patrol car and video that? Are you sure you have all he facts in this case?

mark christian

Warbirds said:

I will share my thoughts soon- but want to hear from some of ya’ll first.

Why wait to hear from us? Don't wait for the polling data to come in, If you have an opinion you should state it.

As for myself, I'd do what everyone else on scene did: tell the officer to stop. 

iceracerx

My first gut reaction while watching the video was (around the 3-5 minute mark), were I a witness, was to tackle the cop kneeling on the neck.  Yeah, I'm sure I'd have gotten what for (and hope the rogue cop didn't kill me too - 20/20 hint sight because the victim wasn't dead yet).   Drawing a firearm on the police sounds like 'suicide by cop' to me.
In Michigan I have the legal right to defend myself and others.  No one has mentioned what a citizen can do if witnessing the actions of a rogue cop.

MrMag00

Show me the whole video and I will tell you what I might do. The perp died of heart condition complicated by intoxicants. That is in the coroners report, he did not die of asphyxiation. He was most definitely treated respectfully and then the cameras are off. My guess is he started to fight back and they subdued him. Then his heart gave out.  That is not murder in any way shape or form. 

A more pressing question is why some of you hate the police when doing their job and all the facts are not presented?


But chances are I would leave the area. Don't need to be caught up in other peoples battles. 

RobOz

https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11190261#Comment_11190261

The whole video. Lol. And you have a copy of the toxicology findings?

bustedknee

I would have done 2 things.

1.  Said, "Oh look, cops doing their job."

2.  Kept walking.

redneckandy

truthful said:

Okay. So the surveillance video shows George being cooperative,getting out of the car,waiting on the sidewalk, and being escorted across the street. Then, the next video shows him on the pavement with a knee on his neck. Why is there no video of what occurred causing George to be face down on the pavement with a knee on his neck? Or is there other video, but we don't get to see what happened when they reached the patrol car? Also, when he was on the pavement, all the video shows is his head and neck, all else is blocked by the patrol car. What else was happening but was blocked from the video? And, there were a number of people around, yelling, etc. I bet they all had phones with video camera capability. Why didn't one of those people video what happened to cause George to be on the pavement? And why didn't anyone go around to the other side of the patrol car and video that? Are you sure you have all he facts in this case?

What I heard was he was claustrophobic and didn't want to get in the car. He was 6' 200lbs, I am 6'4" 190 and the back seat of most cars don't work for me. I can not see me sitting halfway comfortable cuffed in the back seat of a cruiser. I can understand his issue.

mohawk600

MrMag00 said:

Show me the whole video and I will tell you what I might do. The perp died of heart condition complicated by intoxicants. That is in the coroners report, he did not die of asphyxiation. He was most definitely treated respectfully and then the cameras are off. My guess is he started to fight back and they subdued him. Then his heart gave out.  That is not murder in any way shape or form. 

A more pressing question is why some of you hate the police when doing their job and all the facts are not presented?


But chances are I would leave the area. Don't need to be caught up in other peoples battles. 

MrMag00 is an leo agitator.....GTFO MrMag00

MrMag00

Why do you hate cops so much?  Take your own advice please. 

Pretty much supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Show me the proof .

Ditch-Runner

easy to be a rm chair and hind sight thinking 
 unless another LEO had got involved joe citizen would not have fared well 
 

Smitty500mag

I would check and see if he needed any help...the cop that is. That's the thing to do these days is take a knee isn't it?

Warbirds

https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11190243#Comment_11190243

Mark-

I guess none of us know exactly as we were not there, but I think I probably would have stood right there on the sidelines, or maybe even kept going about my day and only moved away from the situation.

Hindsight being 20/20 I think the most appropriate thing to have done is probably what others have said- request some form of intervention, call for a supervisor l, etc.

The reason that answer bothers me, is if a police officer was in trouble, being assaulted or life in immediate danger I know I would intervene and do my best to assist him when it is needed most. But if it appears a cop is taking things too far, just like everyone else, I would go on about my day.

It doesn’t seem like the right thing.

KenK/84Bravo

I agree with bpost. If anyone had gotten physically involved in that situation, it would have ended very badly for that individual, as well as charges being levied. Obstruction of Justice, Assaulting an Officer, and anything else they could think to throw at you. Not to mention the beat down (er, I mean) the aggressive subduing you would receive, while they yelled "stop resisting" a few dozen times.

That was a lose/lose situation for those witnessing it. Except for the fact they will be called as witnesses in the trials.

SCOUT5

MrMag00 said:

Show me the whole video and I will tell you what I might do. The perp died of heart condition complicated by intoxicants. That is in the coroners report, he did not die of asphyxiation. He was most definitely treated respectfully and then the cameras are off. My guess is he started to fight back and they subdued him. Then his heart gave out.  That is not murder in any way shape or form. 

A more pressing question is why some of you hate the police when doing their job and all the facts are not presented?


But chances are I would leave the area. Don't need to be caught up in other peoples battles. 

He died of complications from respiratory insufficiency induced by physical restraint.  The restraint restricted ability to maintain proper air flow, that in addition to increased metabolic demands caused by the physical stress of the situation resulted in inadequate gas exchange.   The inadequate gas exchanged complicated previous existing health conditions.  This complications resulted in the organ failing causing the death of this subject.

In short, the police held the man in a compromising position for an extended period and killed him.

SCOUT5

If I were that I would not know the outcome of the situation would be the man's death.  I would have suspected it could be, but I wouldn't know.  Given my experience in having seen many people in respiratory induced and other distresses I would have known his death was quite possible.   I think I would have protested to the officers there concerning the treatment.  I do not know if I would have thought to call another department, or even the city department.  Though I have been in a situation when I contacted another department to get involved due to an officer's behavior.

Toolman286

A funny story just came to mind. I arrested a young fellow who would make Floyd look small. I approached him in a non-threatening manner & thankfully, he was cooperative. Regulation cuffs wouldn't fit his wrists  & he couldn't get his hands close enough behind his back to use them. So, (against regulations) we cuffed him in the front with ankle cuffs & he had to lay diagonally across the back seat. He acted respectfully & we treated him the same. No problemo. Of course, this didn't work with everyone.