What will be the tipping point??

dreher

Mods, please don't move this to politics.  I honestly just want to know what the members think.
As a nation we have already moved way past what I ever thought we, as a nation, would ever have tolerated.  At some point this idiocy will have to stop.  I mean abolishing the police departments, Antifa taking over neighborhoods, really???   I'm pretty sure I know how all that will turn out.  The only way this will stop is when the citizens stand up and say ENOUGH!!!

Which brings me to my questions for all of you.  What event, what line in the sand, what destruction will it take for us, as a nation, to stand up and say enough already!!  For that matter what actions will be necessary to stop this idiocy??

mark christian

dreher said:

Mods, please don't move this to politics. 

An appeal. Okay. It stays in GD until the replies become political. Your thread is in the hands of your peers. Can they show restraint?

Horse Plains Drifter

mark christian said:

dreher said:

Mods, please don't move this to politics. 

Can they show restraint?

HA!! ......NOPE!

sharpshooter039

I can not believe they have let a lot of this go so far . Standing by watching the looting, burning and just general destruction from destroyed police cars to statues. I understand many are under orders but if you are not going to keep the peace and order and at the very least arrest the leaders and instigators ,,, just go home.

dreher

I'm afraid you will be correct Mark but I really want to know what a broader spectrum of members thinks.  If over on politics not as many will see this to reply to it.
OK guys, don't get nasty.  Mark is watching us!!  Just give us your thoughts on what straw will break the camels back.  
One possible answer is that it is already to late but I don't think so.   We Americans are an interesting bunch.  On one hand we can handle anything that is thrown at us, on the other hand we can be a nation of weenies.

Sam06

4 Words

Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.

We are there.

They have Warlords, armed guards demanding money from people to enter.............all the stuff you would expect in a 3rd world SH.

I am not sure where my tipping point will be but I am sure its not too far away.

NeoBlackdog

I'm with Sam on this.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-protests-armed-guards-local-businesses-extortion
Were I a resident or close neighbor to this area I'd be taking a real long hard look at some 2nd Amendment remedies for the situation. 
I can guarantee you that were they to try that in the town I live in such remedies would have already been applied. 

Warbirds

Don’t threaten my livelihood and don’t threaten my family.

I’m not going to go hold the line and stop Dicks Sporting Good from being looted, but they are not going to stop me from providing for my family and they will feel safe.

This is really only round one. The commies are seeing where the boundries are.

SW0320

Warbirds said:

Don’t threaten my livelihood and don’t threaten my family.

I’m not going to go hold the line and stop Dicks Sporting Good from being looted, but they are not going to stop me from providing from my family and they will feel safe.

This is really only round one. The commies are seeing where the boundries are.

I agree with this, especially the last line.  

hobo9650

This stuff really started in the 60's with the free stuff and flower children.   Parents wanting things to be better and easier for their little darlings.  Draft was stopped, nothing to connect with the young people and responsible.  Schools took over the job of parents over the years.  Most teenagers were considered adults at 18, now press and others often refer to 25 year old college students as "kids".

We as adults have thrown away our rights as voters, parents and members of a nation.  Only a rebellion such as the "Boston tea party" will change the country and I'm ready - locked and loaded.

4205raymond

I grew up in Highland Park, North Side and Monument Ave. area of Richmond. Gen Robert E, Lee graduated I think 1st in his class at the Point. He was offered Command of the Union Army but his heart was in Virginia. It would be impossible to put into words the anguish that I feel over what is going on there and across this Great Country.

The tipping point will come when some nut like the Tyrant Andrew Cuomo sends the State Police/National Guard to stack up on our front doors and confiscate our firearms because rioting and demonstrating got out of control. He is a Master at using Executive Orders and a "Message of Necessity"

mogley98

I don't think their is a line, working Americans haven't got the time to protest or join in, they will keep going to work having their rights trampled until someday waking up with nothing worth working for any more. You can look at any number of countries for a example of how things will be.

4205raymond

us55840 said:

It's a complex issue that has been in the playbook of George Soros for decades IMO.
If you don't know who he is, simply google George Soros the most evil man in existence.
He supports nearly every left wing radical gang there is and he has his fingers in some 20 or more media outlets so is controlling what is or isn't reported by the news media.
He has made billions toppling governments and has his sights set on destroying the United States of America.  It is truly sad so many are blind to what he is doing thru others.----------------So true, he was asked "don't you feel some remorse over taking those peoples property."  He replied "No, I rather enjoyed it." What a POS!

SCOUT5

There are a lot of lessons to be learned if a person is paying attention and not jumping on band wagons.  Civil order order comes from the people, not the police.   People should be seeing that, but many aren't.   The police have the power they have because people choose to respect the position, many in government, police included, failed to understand that.   Both of these things are on display.   People need to stand up on their own.   The police need to understand their place in the system.  Both of these things are out of balance.

ROY222

It should have already been reached.

Police leaving their station after receiving orders, so the looters can loot it and burn it.

Police knelling and laying down to the rioters/looters.  That guy that laid down should be fired.

A policy of appeasement will not work.  Force is what is required to bring back order.

Don McManus

Flying Clay Disk said:

Short answer - I don't think there is a 'tipping point' anymore, sadly.  I used to think there was, but not anymore.

There was a time when I believed there was a silent majority of folks who would stand up and fight when some line got crossed, when it got to be too much.  Sadly, that time has passed, and those people are gone, or too old to be effective. 

Revolutionary wars are fought by young men and women, not a bunch of old codgers yelling "Get off my lawn, or I'll shoot!"  Oh sure, there were some old guys providing guidance and wisdom, but the guys out there in the rain, snow, running through the forests lugging muskets and firing cannons were all young guys.  Plus, the general populous during those times was a lot tougher than they are today. 

I look around today and I don't see young people who would be willing to do any of those things today.  Not in any numbers anyway.  Sure there's probably a few, but not nearly enough.  Even more sadly, it seems like there's a whole lot of young folks who ARE willing to fight to destroy this republic, folks who agree with undermining and rewriting the Constitution...or just getting rid of it altogether.

Sad times ahead I'm afraid, my friends.  Us old geezers will go down fighting, no doubt...even if it is just to defend the principle of the Republic and that for which it stands...(and the front lawn).  I'll be one of them.

I agree, FCD.  If things continue as they appear to be going, America as we knew it will disappear, and we will be left with a few disparate groups that are intractable and unchangeable.  Giving into the pressure being applied through violence against uninvolved people and businesses will do nothing but encourage those who are uninvolved to leave in order to associate with like minded people.  Law enforcement will be faced with the reality of police free zones, and the cultural confirmation of  differences that cannot be resolved will further drive our society into defacto tribal isolation.  Multi-generational issues continue to be blamed for current events, and as isolation increases, victim mythology transforms into a religion and eventually into unwavering belief.  
This disparate tribes will be forced to employ their own defenses be it through social or physical methods.
Frankly, and you allude to this, absent a willingness by all to internalize the beauty that is the loosely defined, but strong  Freedom and Liberty tenants of our founding, we are in for a rough go of it.
But to the original question?
The tipping point has been crossed.  Every discussion on national media is currently one-sided.  It revolves around the central issue of what should we as a society do to help fix the problems in minority communities.  One almost never hears a pointed question as to what responsibility should be shouldered by those within these communities to assist.  It is a question we are not allowed to ask, and responsibility that cannot be requested.

BobJudy

The problem is there no longer is a tipping point. No one is willing to be blamed for any rioters or anarchists being injured. Imagine the racist outcry if some idiot loses a few teeth trying to resist the police. If a private citizen stands up to these thugs the hue and cry will go out to hang the intolerant person. We are no longer a democratic republic. The 80% who are against all of this crap are being dictated to by the 20%. Bob

bpost

Well if you want an observation I will share mine.  These riots and civil unrest debacles are happening in cities, mostly blue cities and states.  I and many millions of Americans live in flyover country where the sadness over the murder of George Floyd runs pretty deep.  What we don't see is riots on our streets, businesses being burned and all manner of mayhem.  We are disconnected from it all by distance.  We can not see a justification for burning down a business as a way of protest.

Unless you watch the news (I don't) you could be completely unaware of the riots and stupidity of city leaders, like those in Seattle.  We, the masses of many millions are too busy working, minding our own business and caring for our families to go to some cesspool city and scream about the so-called injustice these Commie dolts are spouting about systemic racism and cops gunning down blacks wholesale  We know it is not true.

Enough will be enough when they drive up my dirt road with ill intent and force my hand.  Until then I will watch in horror as City leaders and Governors kowtow to the violence and destruction in their cities.  Murder, mayhem and lawlessness is the way of life in these cities and only a change in the attitudes of (D) voting city dwellers will change it.  That is not likely to happen so we are now seeing the new normal for Blue States and Cities. Ignorance is not part of the plan for these folks but they sure use it to their advantage to blame the Nation's very core values of laws as being the problem.

Mr. Perfect

I think posting your line in the sand on the internet is reckless.

Grasshopper

The "media" and the owners of such are funding this disease and promoting anything to turn the USA back to the swamp that is entrenched. The big wheels involved in this would love to have some more uprisings all the way to, dare I say, election. ANTIFA are just paid rats to do the bidding of the leftist. And how can a local government let them control parts of a city? Because that is a leftist stronghold and the media generals would love to see more people getting shot, more arson, mayhem anything to tip the scales in their minds. 

mohawk600

The line won't be crossed until things devolve into true anarachy and the hooliganism (home invasions and looting) becomes REALLY wide-spread

4205raymond

Many here have indicated pretty much where the line in the sand will be drawn. I don't think it is reckless. I would say many of us Old Farts don't care and when you cross that line you will know you have crossed it. FCD, BPOST and others you speak the truth.

I remembered another OLD FART who drew a line in the sand. His name was Samuel Whittemore, a Minuteman who caught the 47th Regiment of Foot Redcoats on their retreat from Lexington and Concord at Menotomy. The Redcoats were burning all the farmhouses on their retreat.At 80 years old Samuel threw every thing he had at them.( pistols, musket,saber, and bayonet). He was shot in the face and some say he was bayoneted at least 17 times. The Redcoats thought he was dead and marched on. (sort of reminded me of MSG Roy Benavidez who could only spit when they went to zip up his body bag). Samuel stood his ground and 40 Redcoats died and 80 were wounded at Menotomy. When they carried Samuel off to the doctor, he said take him home to die with his family, there is no hope for him. Samuel survived his wounds and lived another 18 years and died at 98 in February 1793. Don't ever count us OLD FARTS out.

cbxjeff

I've seen this "line in the sand" comment years ago but can't remember where. 

truthful

Unfortunately, those creating all the unrest in America learned long ago that people will tolerate almost anything if imposed upon them in small enough doses. Can you imagine what would have happened in your parent's day, or grandparent's day, if a mess like this was sent their way?

dreher

When I was a kid my Dad and all his friends were WW II vets in their 30s.  If this had taken place in their hometowns the cities would have only one problem.  What to do with all the rioters/looters bodies!!

Ditch-Runner

 tipping point
1st guess  when the 2nd amendment groups  as in gun owners get there crap together actually stand together in place of arm chair and stern letter writing  and do similar protest  . lets see a group of gun owners take over a town and demand all gun laws be revoked  , they would be arrested faster then crap going thru a goose 
  2nd guess  when the non Afro Americans stand together and start looting and rioting destroying private property tearing down statues for the chosen ones .  any time a non black is killed by a black or minority 

chiefr

One needs to examine how the tipping point is dealt with on a micro scale: City, county, and state before jumping into the national scale.  Will give a damn good picture of what to expect and like Bpost eluded to. There is HUGE difference between the red and the blue areas that cant be ignored: 

    Look at VA. When gov Ralph BF Northam and the (D) majority passed sweeping gun control measures. The red areas resisted and protested in great numbers downplayed and ignored by the media. Many city and county leaders said they would not enforce the bans.

    The entire state of Arkansas had been blue since the civil war. State government 75% D, All congressmen and Senators D.
It was the socialist agenda of Barrack Obama that flipped the state in 2014. Protests were intense and the tea party movement swept the state. Protest were NOT covered by bias partisan media, but they were real. State govt now Blue super-majority and all congressmen and Senators GOP. 

Conversely, look at what the Red cities are demanding: De-fund police, sanctuary for illegal aliens, gun control, more money for social programs, criminal justice reform (Early release and parole), more taxes, continued economic shutdown except for looters, government unions, stop all investigation and prosecution of misdemeanor crimes. Public transportation only, bans on everything from plastic bags to sugary drinks, curfews, government control of healthcare, open borders. Boils down to socialism. 

   Thousands of examples.

Give the people in the big D cities credit: They are giving into the desires of their constituents and instituting socialist policies.
Those not happy with socialism are a tiny minority now and most have left. 

I dont agree on whats going on in the DEMOCRAT controlled cities and states and that is why I choose not to live there.  Seriously doubt such crap is going to be taken lightly by freedom loving and patriotic people in the blue areas because the have not yet felt the effects .    

4205raymond

I use to think it was reckless but when you get one foot in the grave it doesn't seem to matter as much anymore.

shilowar

Sam06 said:

4 Words

Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.

We are there.

They have Warlords, armed guards demanding money from people to enter.............all the stuff you would expect in a 3rd world SH.

I am not sure where my tipping point will be but I am sure its not too far away.

Yep...getting close to turning my gear in and calling it a career over.

shilowar

cbxjeff said:

I've seen this "line in the sand" comment years ago but can't remember where. 

In fairness that was a red line...completely different thing then the line in the sand thing! 

serf

The problem is the lowest common dominator in our society is going to make us all be stripped of our rights to keep and bear arms because of their actions of lacking to being a responsible citizen. Black on black crime is ignored when it comes to finding solutions of morality. It's all about white people's transgression and not their own immoral activities.

                                                     serf

Don McManus

serf said:

The problem is the lowest common dominator in our society is going to make us all be stripped of our rights to keep and bear arms because of their actions of lacking to being a responsible citizen. Black on black crime is ignored when it comes to finding solutions of morality. It's all about white people's transgression and not their own immoral activities.

                                                     serf

You are mostly correct, here, serf IMO.
Frankly ignoring intra-racial crime is not the major concern, rather it is the framing of the conversation as you note in your last sentence.  Virtually every discussion is about what the greater society (read white society) should do, and one is not allowed to say 'OK, but you need to meet us half way.  If the greater society takes responsibility for items a and b, can we agree that the lessor society must take responsibility for c and d.'  The greater society is presented with demands.  It is virtually never presented with solutions.  We have crossed a significant tipping point because there is little demand for personal responsibility, and will only cross back when that basic societal norm is regained.

Marc1301

truthful said:

people will tolerate almost anything if imposed upon them in small enough doses.

Bingo.

This has been the playbook for decades, and we have set by and watched it happen. Not making excuses, but most of us have been too busy working to take care of ourselves and family. These people don't worry about things like that as we do it for them.

Ditch-Runner

 a friend  just finished a rant on Trump and the republicans for just allowing the left to just run them over  while just sitting back and watching our country go down the crapper with out a fight 
 by  allowing cities and states to give over to the far left even giving free passes for crimes and looting and not counting taking over part of a city with no arrest or no real efforts to do any thing 

 I ask do  him . you think the POTUS is going to release the national guard  over ride the states  governments go in busting heads and arresting every one , then be the fall guy  for starting a even larger fight igniting a true internal war over what would surly be some serious injuries possible deaths its  not going to happen unless things grow completely out of hand 
I have no true  answer  that would solve the problems  and get order reinstated and apparently no one else does  
 unfortunately the   truth   were just walking on egg shells its  sad to say  to prevent a smoldering camp fire to grow  into a all out of control wild fire the people in charge are  allowing way more than any other generation would have considered to happen
  I also think any concerned citizens groups who tried to intervene would be the bad guys and face the wrath of the laws