Texas Game Wardens

nunn

There's a TV show about Texas Game Wardens, "Lone Star Law."  I've watched a few episodes and have a question:

Police officers have to have a reason to stop and detain a person, "reasonable suspicion" that some offense has been or is about to be committed.

The rules seem to be a little different for the game wardens.  They just cruise up on a a boat and basically do a "board and search," called a "safety equipment check."  Same with hunters and fishermen.  They just approach and ask to check licenses, gun plugs, fish in the cooler, etc.  They haven't observed any illegal activity but they go looking for it.

Am I calling this right?  Do the Supreme Court decisions and Constitutional Amendments that apply to regular police officers just not apply to game wardens?

mark christian

State laws vary considerably on a game wardens powers. In California if game warden has reason to believe that someone is engaged in hunting or fishing, both of which are a regulated by the state, they can inspect any firearm or fishing equipment which might be used in either activity.  If it is duck season and you have a shotgun in your truck the game warden could very well check it to ensure that the plug is in the magazine.  They can also search cars, boats, ice chests, or just about any container which might hold a game animal- or an animal part. Mom and pop in the Prius most likely won't get stopped and inspected. Two guys in a pickup truck with a Ducks Unlimited decal in the back window can almost count on it. 

hillbille

that is what I have been told in WVa. a game warden doesn't need a search warrant to come in your house looking for illegal game, but if they find drugs or anything else it may get confiscated but can't be used in court.  most of the big drug busts around here use DNR agents  and I allways wondered if this was why........ I have been stopped in random roadblocks during hunting season they go through some cars pretty good

bustedknee

The US Constitution does not apply to game wardens.   They can come on your property anytime and search all your buildings without a warrant.  They usually get a warrant, however, if they want to search your house.

truthful

It's the same in Colorado. Very common for a game warden to come into your elk or deer camp and check licenses, weapons if it is a special season, etc. Then on your way out on a Jeep trail, a warden may be posted somewhere and flag you down to check everything. Most are always very polite, just doing their job, and will often pass along some tips as to good spots to hunt.

On the east coast, if you have a shellfish license you can count on being harassed by the local clam Nazi. They check every clam in your bucket for count and legal size.

Grasshopper

Was at my friends house during deer season and  the Possum Police roll into the drive. They jump out start looking and measuring the deer shot and told us we want to see the person who shot this deer! So buddy says me and they proceed to ask what he shot it with, where and checked all tags to make sure it was called in. As bad as a no knock warrant, imo. Their attitude was horrible.
This is in Illinois.

MrMag00

When you buy a hunting/fishing license do you grant permission? 

Alpine

When I was working I was dispatched to a few cover calls to a game wardens location. When I got there they would tell me what they wanted to do, and I would ask what their Probable Cause was. 
In every case there either an anonymous call, or they did not have a warrant or exigent circumstances. They were going to enter a house or outbuilding. I told them I would be waiting at the curb for them and would come if shots were fired, or someone came running from the house. I told them there was no way I would violate the U.S. Constitution  just because  said that they had the right.
As it turns out the law that they were citing was one written to allow them to enter a restaurant, not a home.
I was not popular with Game Wardens or Child Protective Services.

nononsense

Private or public land, doesn't matter to Illinois DNR.

We had purchased and improved 80 acres of prime Illinois duck hunting property and waterways. We were the new guys on the block so Opening Day we're all in blinds with the spreads set with ducks working. DNR, in several high speed watercraft, entered our property, drove right up to blinds pushing all the ducks out obviously. They tied off and demanded hunting and driver's licenses from everyone on the water. We all passed that but we all got tickets for not having wearable life vests. The law had read that throwables (seat cushions) were accepted but the law had changed a few weeks before.

Two of us asked pointed questions about how they entered our property and they said they could do what they pleased. With six other witnesses to that answer, we chose to show up for court. The officer had his say then we all testified to his answer.

Judge's decision? Not guilty with a 3 minute dissertation to the officer about rights and privilege with regard to private property and 'reasonable suspicion'. Thank you Your Honor!

The officer waited for us outside the courthouse and essentially threatened us because of our complaint. We turned around and went back inside to file a complaint. The officer was fired two weeks later.

The next time the DNR officers simply waited outside the property until we got on the river to pull us over and check the boats, harvest and licenses. We just smiled and said Yes, Sir!

Best.

bpost

Ohio fin and feather can enter private property without a warrant, they can search your freezer and take meat for DNA tests and there is ONLY one thing you can do about it.  Refuse to answer any questions beyond giving ID and shutting the heck up. 

In Alaska a famous case on the Kenai taught a valuable lesson.  A moose got shot and was only 49.5".  Legal at that time was 50".  He took the moose meat and rack to Anchorage and turned it in.  When asked who shot the moose the hunter replied, "I am turning in this moose, I refuse to answer any other questions."  The DNR tried like the dickens to get him to admit he shot the moose, he remained silent asking for his lawyer.  The DNR took his gun, hunting equipment and truck.  When it went to pretrial the judge threw the whole thing out and made DNR give all of his stuff back.

With any LEO it is wise to be polite but stand your ground, shut up and do not incriminate yourself ever.

redneckandy

Same way in Missouri. Game wardens can do just about anything they want.

RobOz

Nice to have game and fish. I believe ours is called the open field doctrine. PA.

US Military Guy

truthful said:

snip . . .
 just doing their job
. . . snip

Well . . . there you go.

waltermoe

A game warden in Illinois can go on private property with out permission any time.  Also in Illinois, if your fishing on your own property and your own pond you stocked, and there is no house on the property, you still must have a fishing license. Also in Illinois, if you are out hunting and you lean your gun against your vehicle, that can pull you a fine as well.  As for getting checked in the past most of the time they have seemed fairly polite and courteous and respect your hunting.   

Toolman286

Reminds me of an old story. A woman is tired of her husband disappearing in his boat to go fishing. So she takes the boat out to sit & read a book. The game warden pulls up and accuses her of fishing without a license. He says that she ability & equipment (in the boat) so she is guilty. She in turn accuses him of being a rapist as he has the ability & the required male equipment and is therefore guilty. Never mind.

Alpine

Toolman286 said:

Reminds me of an old story. A woman is tired of her husband disappearing in his boat to go fishing. So she takes the boat out to sit & read a book. The game warden pulls up and accuses her of fishing without a license. He says that she ability & equipment (in the boat) so she is guilty. She in turn accuses him of being a rapist as he has the ability & the required male equipment and is therefore guilty. Never mind.

I love that story!

nononsense

waltermoe said:

A game warden in Illinois can go on private property with out permission any time.  Also in Illinois, if your fishing on your own property and your own pond you stocked, and there is no house on the property, you still must have a fishing license. Also in Illinois, if you are out hunting and you lean your gun against your vehicle, that can pull you a fine as well.  As for getting checked in the past most of the time they have seemed fairly polite and courteous and respect your hunting.   

This was 30 years ago and they were definitely not polite which was why we went to court as was OUR right. One of the many reasons I packed up and left that idiotic socialist state. At that time the judge agreed with us and against the officer, so go figure. The judge was an elected official and the officer was a paid employee. Quite frankly I really don't care what they can do now as I will never set foot back there again. Have at it boys!  

Best.

SW0320

I think the game wardens get away with what they do because most of what they enforce are administrative type laws and not criminal.  At least from what I have seen most violations do not carry a prison term or not one of a length so as to take away your liberties.  Also most don’t get a court appointed attorney who can continue to get paid appealing convictions.

i do agree that they do have some pretty broad discretion.  I remember when we lived in Maine the GW used to set up road blocks on major northern roads on major holidays to check coolers for fish or to check game shot.

Smitty500mag

I guess that's the reason that a game wardens job is considered the most dangerous in law enforcement. When they go messing with people like a Gestapo agent they find out a lot of people don't take kindly to that kind of treatment.

hobo9650

I googled several questions and found that in most cases then GW has the same limitations as LEO's.

Often see the Texas Rangers search a house without a warrant on that show.  I have now quit watching.  

Watching that show in TV recently and saw a GW give a guy a ticket for no DL even though the 4 people were camping. 

select-fire

A real reality show. Amazing how many folks are "special " who fish and hunt without a license.

RugerNiner

PA is really bad.

https://www.pennlago.com/three-things-may-not-know-pennsylvania-game-commission-officers-waterway-conservation-officers/

gartman

Don't think wardens are any different than LEO's. Will stop a person for something really minor then can scan for drugs, guns, anything in sight. Need drivers permission to search the trunk. If "NO", car can be towed, a warrant obtained, then searched. If they spot something illegal they can search about anything.

gartman

hobo9650 said:

I googled several questions and found that in most cases then GW has the same limitations as LEO's.

Often see the Texas Rangers search a house without a warrant on that show.  I have now quit watching.  

Watching that show in TV recently and saw a GW give a guy a ticket for no DL even though the 4 people were camping. 

Well, someone drove the car there and no one had a license. Cheaper to pay a ticket than watch them tow the car and try to reclaim it later. Trying to explain to dad why the car is In the impound lot could get quite "costly" too.

bpost

gartman said:

hobo9650 said:

I googled several questions and found that in most cases then GW has the same limitations as LEO's.

Often see the Texas Rangers search a house without a warrant on that show.  I have now quit watching.  

Watching that show in TV recently and saw a GW give a guy a ticket for no DL even though the 4 people were camping. 

Well, someone drove the car there and no one had a license. Cheaper to pay a ticket than watch them tow the car and try to reclaim it later. Trying to explain to dad why the car is In the impound lot could get quite "costly" too.

That is why you shut up to the Police.  The ticketed dude opened his mouth instead of shutting up.  His own words were used against him and he got a ticket that could have nay SHOULD have been avoided.  If all parties camping would have simply stated "with all due respect officer I choose to protect my rights and not answer your questions".  The Police officer would not have probable cause to issue a ticket to anyone.

Junkballer

hobo9650 said:

I googled several questions and found that in most cases then GW has the same limitations as LEO's.

Yes sir, despite what they claim and what they want you to believe any law school dropout can make them look foolish in court if in front of a knowledgeable Judge    ..........NO state law can overide your U.S constitutional rights when it comes to search and seizures of home and property ( show me the warrant ) . The dirt you hunt on belongs to the State 1st. then secondly you,  so claiming them to be trespassing on your dove field is not a "trespassing" legal defense against them, they are in the right.

Sam06

Most of the game wardens I have met are dicks.  Especially the ones on the coast.  You need Marlin Perkins, Jacques Cousteau and Johnny Cochran to figure out NC Offshore fishing regs.

Butchdog2

I may be wrong, have been before, but NC game laws don't require license to hunt on ones own property nor to wear blaze orange. Not sure about this either but I don't think a warden can enter where you are hunting with out a complaint. They can check you coming and going. Too dangerous for them to come prowling into your hunting area. If someone takes game illegally and the wardens are alerted then they have the authority check things out.

A person did a little night hunting out of season near hear, couldn't keep his mouth shut. Wardens searched his house, and out buildings. Found the deer in the freezer in one of the out buildings, ripped out the door frame, took the meat and freezer and anything the deer might have touched, gun, truck, and the poachers hunting license for who knows how long.

Use to hunt over in 84's neck of the woods years ago, the wardens would drive out into the fields and look around but never would get out of their vehicles. Knock on wood but I have never been checked while hunting but have be checked a time or two while fishing.

pulsarnc

During my 65 years I think I have been checked by the game wardens about 5 or 6 times . Never a problem as I was always legal. As has been said , NC wardens generally do a good job .

Butchdog2

All wardens I have had an occasion to talk with have been professional and courteous..

Had one come to my place, pretty sure neighbor ratted on me but warden said no he was just passing through, humm.

I had taken a nice buck on my property, field dressed and hung it in my garage. He came by that evening and I was working on something outside. He asked  if I had been hunting, yes and had taken a good buck, where is it he asked. Raised the garage door, boy that is a nicen, where is the tag? In the house by the phone, mind to get it? Went straight in and straight out.

I had known the warden for sometime, he said I didn't know this was where you lived, yep all my life. Have a good evening and on his way he went.

buddyb

I don't think many of this new generation game wardens have ever been fishing or hunting.

mohawk600

From what I understand, in Texas, game wardens have powers that regular LEOs don't regarding search and seizure. I would also bet that if they found something illegal other than a hunting violation..........such as drugs........an arrest would be made and it would not be thrown out in court.

He Dog

First half of the 90's I held scientific collecting permits for several southwestern states including Texas.  Interesting experience being stopped on a road a few miles from the Mexican boarder and not much else at 11:00 at night.  I always kept a pouch of Redman with me and when they lighted me up I would fill my cheek.  Then we would stand around together chewing and spitting while they looked over my permit and my catch.  They usually said guys always like to be on their good side, and so told them about other guys collecting illegally.  I told them I saw some fellows collecting an spotlighting deer over around Langtry.  Then I went back to the Calvary Post in Lajitas for the night and went to bed.

RobOz

https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11203882#Comment_11203882

Open Fields Doctrine .

susie

Game warden came into our deer camp one year. Saw my Dad's .35 Remington. He insisted he had to check it to make sure Dad wasn't loading it with buckshot.

Daddy told him if there was buckshot in that gun, you can have it. Lol.

fatcat458

A little personal talks about TX game wardens. l started shooting Prairie Dogs in Tx after Uncle Sugar invited to visit Ft Hood 1990 beginning of Desert Storm. Been doing it quite regularly since with a visit last month to Amarillo Tx. ln that span l never met a Tx Warden in the field. l only see them now and then when l purchase a 5 day small game license.. Bought mine online this year. Got it in the mail 2 weeks after l got home in GA/SC  
0ther areas of the country aren't so welcoming. RoseDud Sioux Reservation reminds me of GA/SC speed traps on old US-1.
When hunting the REZ you must have a local native ''Guide''. Going rate 10yrs back was $100 a day. So you go out with Chief Big Liar. We are all set up when Chief disappears and suddenly his brother the Game Warden pops up.. He's gonna find something wrong. Most of the time its TRESSPASSING... lts a huge rez, but within it there's private land spotted all over. 0ne way you are on native land. 50ft east you are on private land= Ticket Time.. The RoseDud is history for me. Never Again!!
Now moving further East we find ourselves in prime Black Bear Territory. Potter County Pennsylvania is Black Bear Heaven. Hunting with an Army buddy and his family out of their shack in CoudersPort Pa is great. Not so great when a Pa game warden spots a red pickup with South Carolina plates. Talk about getting checked. l think the record in one day is FOUR...
PA game wardens have DUAL exhaust!! Tried it a couple of seasons in Pa... There wont  be a THIRD

He Dog

We see so many guys hunting from their pickups with rifles poking out the windows and 4 kids in the back sitting on a cable spool with rifles ready.  I welcome game wardens in our camp, pour them coffee and gladly thank them for caring enough to leave the donut shop.