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Hand Sanitizers Causing Norovirus and Other Problems

MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
edited September 6 in General Discussion

"New research has found that hand sanitizers are not as effective as soap and water in health care settings at preventing viral outbreaks. In fact, they may even be responsible for outbreaks of seriously contagious viruses. As a common alternative to using soap and water, hand sanitizers are often regarded as being the most efficient way to cleanse hands.

More detailed investigations will be necessary though, say public health experts, to change the belief that hand sanitizers are as equally good as hand soap. For many in health care settings, the convenience of hand sanitizers greatly outweighs that of hand soap, and there are numerous recommendations encouraging their use.

In health care settings, the link between improper antibiotic use and development of super bugs is well known. The same cannot be said for the link occurring between hand sanitizers and bacterial resistance, because the link is not so clear yet."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232708#1

Comments

  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    edited September 6
    And your point is? This article is from 2011 in case you didn't notice.
    Also, I guess you don't realize that Covid-19 is an enveloped virus, and is highly susceptible to alcohol in the right concentration.

    Pay attention to this quote from your article,.........
    "Many studies have found the effectiveness of alcohol based hand sanitizers to be inadequate against non enveloped viruses, such as norovirus."

    Here's another tidbit not included in your 2011 article,.........
    "Coronaviruses are a type of enveloped virus, that is, they are encased within a double-layered lipid (fatty) membrane. Non-enveloped viruses have a hard outer shell called a capsid."

    Apples and oranges.


    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭
    This is an article from 2011. Perhaps it is part of the reason that for many years we have been told that sanitizer use is not a substitute for hand washing. In the late 90s my employees were instructed to use sanitizer only after washing their hands because that was the health department guideline. If out running errands, shopping, etc... the use of sanitizer is recommended but hands should be thoroughly washed when the final destination is reached. But I thought everyone knew that. Bob
  • mohawk600mohawk600 Member Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭
    I read an article that discussed the widespread use of hand sanitizer a possible cause for the development of some super bugs that will be resistant to hand sanitizers.
  • mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 22,877 ******
    My girlfriend is a lab tech. In the lab, alcohol is never used as a hand sanitizer; they scrub (hard) with soap and then rinse with purified/distilled water. Nothing in the lab is disinfected with alcohol, it is always with chlorine beach.

    Alcohol is used in consumer products, the professionals avoid alcohol unless it is the only option. 
  • MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    edited September 6
    Covid 19 is not a virus. Sars cov2 is the virus.  Alcohol is not antibacterial per se. 

    I have had this discussion with friends who were "germaphobes" and always used antibacterial soaps. They were sick more often than most people, so that justified using it more, when in fact, had you read the article, you would understand the crux of the information. Here is another article. 

    https://www.sciencealert.com/here-s-why-antibacterial-products-are-actually-bad-for-you 

    "This means that bug populations that have been exposed to triclosan can go on to develop mutations that not only protect them from the antibacterial whatsit you've been spraying them with, but even develop cross-resistance, contributing to the whole antibiotic resistance problem we're facing."  

    This is only part of the problem, the other is how the chemical interacts with human biology. But I'm sure you can misread this article as well and miss the point. 


  • MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    Let me break it down for you. What the alleged medical "experts" are doing is making the china flu worse. By not just letting it run it's natural course, we/you are inadvertently creating a "super bug". 
  • mohawk600mohawk600 Member Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭
    In this instance, I have to say that I agrree with MrMag00...............wow.

    Still waiting for the footage of your cross state line mission though.......ala Rittenhouse.
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭
    MrMag00 said:
    Let me break it down for you. What the alleged medical "experts" are doing is making the china flu worse. By not just letting it run it's natural course, we/you are inadvertently creating a "super bug". 
    Let me break it down for you. The article about antibacterial products being bad talks about triclosan that has been banned since 2016. It also says alcohol based sanitizers have merit. Washing your hands thoroughly is still the best bet but if that is not possible use an alcohol sanitizer. Since we no longer have commonly available anti-bacterial soap, how are we creating super bugs? Super bugs are created by the use of anti-biotics not alcohol hand sanitizers. Bob
  • nmyersnmyers Member Posts: 16,331 ✭✭✭
    I have used hydrogen peroxide as a disinfectant for minor injuries for years.
    I still use alcohol to disinfect the blades of my electric shaver, soaking for > 15 minutes.  (You don't want to get bacterial infections in your hair follicles.)
    Neal
  • hillbillehillbille Member Posts: 11,271 ✭✭✭✭
    if you don't want to use alchohol wipes, you can lick your fingers clean, don't matter either way to me........
  • MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    edited September 6
    BobJudy said:
    MrMag00 said:
    Let me break it down for you. What the alleged medical "experts" are doing is making the china flu worse. By not just letting it run it's natural course, we/you are inadvertently creating a "super bug". 
    Let me break it down for you. The article about antibacterial products being bad talks about triclosan that has been banned since 2016. It also says alcohol based sanitizers have merit. Washing your hands thoroughly is still the best bet but if that is not possible use an alcohol sanitizer. Since we no longer have commonly available anti-bacterial soap, how are we creating super bugs? Super bugs are created by the use of anti-biotics not alcohol hand sanitizers. Bob

    I think we addressed your inability to comprehend the written language, so that's why you babble on with all the tangents and strawman arguments.
    And for own peace of mind,  just search "antibacterial soap" and you will find plenty of it for sale. So quit lying already.  By your own tenets, your one lie negates EVERYTHING you have to say. 

     Maybe you should get a quart of Everclear and clense your soul. Or maybe you are doing that right now? 

  • COLTCOLT Member, Moderator Posts: 12,614 ******

    ..I seldom watch the news, have enough going on without concerning myself with too many other people.  I did hear where someone  drank hand sanitizer, geez.

    ....Someone for the "victim" said that there should be more warnings on the bottle, REALLY?! 

     ..... I don't see that drinking hand sanitizer  has much to do with labeling,  I see more education for the totally  stupid... :o

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭
    MrMag00 said:
    BobJudy said:
    MrMag00 said:
    Let me break it down for you. What the alleged medical "experts" are doing is making the china flu worse. By not just letting it run it's natural course, we/you are inadvertently creating a "super bug". 
    Let me break it down for you. The article about antibacterial products being bad talks about triclosan that has been banned since 2016. It also says alcohol based sanitizers have merit. Washing your hands thoroughly is still the best bet but if that is not possible use an alcohol sanitizer. Since we no longer have commonly available anti-bacterial soap, how are we creating super bugs? Super bugs are created by the use of anti-biotics not alcohol hand sanitizers. Bob

    I think we addressed your inability to comprehend the written language, so that's why you babble on with all the tangents and strawman arguments.
    And for own peace of mind,  just search "antibacterial soap" and you will find plenty of it for sale. So quit lying already.  By your own tenets, your one lie negates EVERYTHING you have to say. 

     Maybe you should get a quart of Everclear and clense your soul. Or maybe you are doing that right now? 

    Wow! I feel totally chastised. If you can't even be bothered to read and understand your own links then trying to educate you is probably pointless. Most if not all soap is antibacterial because it breaks down the cell membranes of bacteria and dissolves the sheath covering a virus. So yes there a lot of soaps with no exotic additives that are labeled antibacterial. The link you posted that was 9 years out of date referenced triclosan that hasn't been used since 2016. If you are that afraid of modern medicine and sanitation then perhaps you would have been better off in the middle ages. That herd immunity and living in filth worked so well with the plague. It appears you are guilty of what you have called "panic porn" by sounding your dire warnings about soap and hand sanitizer. Bob
  • waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 334 ✭✭✭

    MrMag00, I’m curious, where did you get your degree in Virology?

  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 11,492 ✭✭✭
    "Hand Sanitizer" is NEVER a total replacement for PROPER hand washing.  Unfortunately, most non-medical personnel don't use proper hand washing protocol. Apparently, it seems that even some folks who SHOULD  know how to wash hands don't follow the correct procedures.
  • SCOUT5SCOUT5 Member Posts: 14,657 ✭✭✭✭
    The only thing that causes norovirus is norovirus.   Proper use of hand sanitizer and proper washing of hands when possible are good prevention against contracting norovirus and other pathogens such as COVID-19.   That said most people do not do either properly or timely.
  • KenK/84BravoKenK/84Bravo Member Posts: 7,519 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7

    Hitting the "Ignore" button now. 😉

    Extreme NE TN/W NC ya'll. 😁

  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,365 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't know about the hand sanitizers (most are a joke) but have seen pictures of folks with severe * infections, staph, etc., from wearing those stupid face masks they have been forced or convinced by Fauci and the media that they will protect them from the china virus.
    What a load of BS IMO.
     

    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    waltermoe said:

    MrMag00, I’m curious, where did you get your degree in Virology?

    Wash your hands and shut up.   If logic can't convince you to wash your hands, no amount of "degree's" will convince you either, or are you one of those who just has to have someone else tell them how to think and make decisions?  
  • MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    COLT said:

    ..I seldom watch the news, have enough going on without concerning myself with too many other people.  I did hear where someone  drank hand sanitizer, geez.

    ....Someone for the "victim" said that there should be more warnings on the bottle, REALLY?! 

     ..... I don't see that drinking hand sanitizer  has much to do with labeling,  I see more education for the totally  stupid... :o

    Tide pods, lol. 

    But in defense of the morons who drink hand sanitizer, if it has alcohol in it and is safe for hands, so it must be safe to drink right? At least Bobby would agree with these morons. 
  • MrMag00MrMag00 Member Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    BobJudy said:
    MrMag00 said:
    BobJudy said:
    MrMag00 said:
    Let me break it down for you. What the alleged medical "experts" are doing is making the china flu worse. By not just letting it run it's natural course, we/you are inadvertently creating a "super bug". 
    Let me break it down for you. The article about antibacterial products being bad talks about triclosan that has been banned since 2016. It also says alcohol based sanitizers have merit. Washing your hands thoroughly is still the best bet but if that is not possible use an alcohol sanitizer. Since we no longer have commonly available anti-bacterial soap, how are we creating super bugs? Super bugs are created by the use of anti-biotics not alcohol hand sanitizers. Bob

    I think we addressed your inability to comprehend the written language, so that's why you babble on with all the tangents and strawman arguments.
    And for own peace of mind,  just search "antibacterial soap" and you will find plenty of it for sale. So quit lying already.  By your own tenets, your one lie negates EVERYTHING you have to say. 

     Maybe you should get a quart of Everclear and clense your soul. Or maybe you are doing that right now? 

    Wow! I feel totally chastised. If you can't even be bothered to read and understand your own links then trying to educate you is probably pointless. Most if not all soap is antibacterial because it breaks down the cell membranes of bacteria and dissolves the sheath covering a virus. So yes there a lot of soaps with no exotic additives that are labeled antibacterial. The link you posted that was 9 years out of date referenced triclosan that hasn't been used since 2016. If you are that afraid of modern medicine and sanitation then perhaps you would have been better off in the middle ages. That herd immunity and living in filth worked so well with the plague. It appears you are guilty of what you have called "panic porn" by sounding your dire warnings about soap and hand sanitizer. Bob
    More ad hominem and strawman arguments from an ameba. Do you think you could ever have an honest discussion? 

    (green) Since sars cov2 we know all the science changed and any breakthroughs before this "panic porn fake pandemic" is no longer valid. Thanks for clarifying this for the rest of us. What would we ever do without Gates and Fauci and you.  (/green) 
  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 12,470 ✭✭✭✭
    "Do you think you could ever have an honest discussion?"
    Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. 
  • waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 334 ✭✭✭

    Have you noticed that people that wear face masks touch their face 10 to 15 times more than people that don’t wear a mask? Teach your self not to touch your face every time you feel a little itch.

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭
    some quotes from your links;

    -In health care settings, the link between improper antibiotic use and development of super bugs is well known. The same cannot be said for the link occurring between hand sanitizers and bacterial resistance, because the link is not so clear yet."

    -Conversely, the only antimicrobial products that appear to have any merit are alcohol-based hand sanitiser gels. Alcohol is a highly effective antiseptic that breaks down proteins and disrupts cell membranes, killing most bacteria, fungi, and even viruses on the spot.

    .- When it comes to keeping clean, the best approach is to use plain soap or detergent, lather up, and rinse well with water. This applies to all types of cleaning - from hands to kitchen surfaces.

    These seem to back up my statement that it is best to wash your hands properly with soap and if that is not possible use a hand sanitizer as a stopgap measure. If you actually read the entire links and not just the headlines it can be educational.

    As far as having an honest discussion, I don't believe I told anyone to shut up, used the word moron, suggested a dose of everclear or equated anyone on here being ignorant enough to ingest hand sanitizer. Bob
  • Marc1301Marc1301 Member Posts: 31,820 ✭✭✭
    BobJudy said:
    As far as having an honest discussion, I don't believe I told anyone to shut up, used the word moron, suggested a dose of everclear or equated anyone on here being ignorant enough to ingest hand sanitizer. Bob
    No sir you didn't. You are too much of a gentleman,......unlike some here.

    "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here." - William Shatner
  • BarzilliaBarzillia Member Posts: 21,892 ✭✭✭
    Alcohol, especially ethanol based and when componded with an emollient, is generally well tolerated, has a wide spectrum of effectiveness when used as directed, and is often the most practical and effective intervention for health care workers in the workplace.

    Handwashing with soap and water, is required in any circumstance when there is a heavy organic load, but is time intensive, not as available or convenient, and not as well tolerated after repeated washings during the normal course of healthcare work, as it causes drying of skin, cracking, and dermatitis.

    Everything has its place.

    This is not new science, and if it is to someone, then that speaks for itself.
    "Anger has two children -.hope, and courage." Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

    "Und es wird nicht hineingehen irgend ein Gemeines und das da Greuel tut und Luge,
    sondern die geschrieben sind in dem Lebensbuch des Lammes."
  • mac10mac10 Member Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭
    i like my germs
  • mohawk600mohawk600 Member Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭
    Now..........................MrMag00 is more concerned about hand sanitizer than showing up at BLM demonstrations across state lines with his AR and filming his "expedition" for us.
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