New Long Range Shooter

Lurchinark

Hello all,  I would like to ask opinions of the more learned among this forum.  My experience is with pistols and shotguns.  I have decided to take on long distance shooting.  I am using a fairly inexpensive platform.    DPMS-PANTHER LR .308.  I would appreciate opinions, good or bad.  I am looking for information regarding optics, attachments for the rails, ie bs and actually useful. Is a bipod a good investment or a sandbag a wiser one.  I am pretty good to 100 yards with iron, that is the extent of my long range shooting.  Thank you.

Warbirds

I am no long range shooter but I can hold my own. You can shoot very well with bags. Bipods create their own technique issues and you meed to be very intentional on keeping the back of the rifle in secure position

Try very hard to position the rifle so its position fits your body if shooting off a bench. Many people drop a bag down and then contort themselves to fit where the rifle is- this isn’t repeatable and doesn’t make great groups over time.

Optics and Glass is ever evolving. I think some of the best deals on optics or right here on GB and are gently used optics.

When push comes to shove- Buy better glass with lower magnification.

BobJudy

Need a little more information. Bipod is good if shooting prone. From the bench I prefer a rest in the front and a bag in the back. The distance you hope to shoot will help determine what type of optics you get. Without breaking the bank a good starter scope would be something like the Vortex PST probably in 4-16x. Don't expect to start at 1000yds but work up to it by finding out what your gun can do at 2-300 yds while working on your trigger pull and maintaining a consistent form and sight picture. It can be challenging but that is half the fun. Welcome to the forum and I bet several others will be chiming in. Good luck. Bob

mark christian

Good glass can overcome almost any shortcoming with the rife or ammunition, while cheap glass will ruin even the best rifle and carefully prepared handloads.  Don't be afraid to spend big money on a scope. It will payoff in the end.

I use a 10X Kahles with my PSA .308. The rifle is far from the most expensive out there, but the glass is amazing and I'm very pleased with the results. 

montanajoe

Welcome aboard.  FEENIX is our resident long distance expert.  Hopefully he will see this title and reply.

gjshaw

Mark is correct in saying that you should get good glass. I started out at age 12 on shooting groundhogs and worked my way up over many years to 200 yard bench rest shooter expert level. Very good glass and patientience is the key. There are many aspects to long range shooting but a good trigger and knowing how to pull it, and a barrel that doesn’t walk all over when it gets warm, and many more things will make you a good long range shooter.

Just for a example , the scope I ended up with for the benchrest shooting was a custom built German glass , 40 power with a dot that at 200 yards was the same diameter as a 22 bullet hole. The glass cost twice as much as the gun back in the 70’s.

bustedknee

Lots of good advice so far.

20MOA bases/rings may be needed. 

Depending on your setup, when shooting at extended ranges (and "dailing-in" the elevations), at some point, you will run out of elevation adjustment in the scope. 

With my Winchester M70 and FNAR, (both 308's) this occurs at about 800 yards. 

Also, I like using a quality bipod at all distances whether prone or bench.  My theory is, this puts the same pressure on the fore end, in the exact same spot, every time.  I experienced a notable difference between sandbags and bipod, with the bipod producing the tightest group.

Of course, your results may be different depending an unlimited number of variables.

drobs

What do you consider long range?

Using my M1A with iron sights off sand bags, I've hit gongs at 700yds.

Took a couple dirt hits and lots of rear sight elevation to get there.

NeoBlackdog

I'll agree with everyone else that has mentioned good glass and take it a couple steps further.  Make sure you get good mounts to hold the glass and if your DPMS still has the factory trigger you might want to invest in a better trigger.   

NeoBlackdog

Flying Clay Disk said:

C'mon guys!  Where are your manners????

@Lurchinark -  Welcome to Gunbroker!!

That's MontanaJoe's job!

bambihunter

Along with the great suggestions already, you might start reading or watching videos of reloading. While it isn't required in and of itself, it allows you to tailor rounds to your particular firearm. You can shoot cheaper, and therefore shoot more for the same amount of money once the equipment is paid for. It might even be worth a weekend at one of the long range shooting classes to make sure you are doing the proper steps. After that, and once you have the shooting hardware set up, there is simply nothing better at increasing your shooting skills quite like trigger time.

Lurchinark

Thank you for the info so far.  I do appreciate it and I gave up my need for manners a long time ago.  I currently consider long range to be 500 yards for ME.  I would love to get to the point I can go to 1k but I may be starting too late to accomplish that goal, we shall see. 

hillbille

may try golf balls at a 100 yards with a 22lr, or 17 cal.  cheap "long range " shooting........

Smitty500mag

Welcome to the forum.

Speaking of long range shooting. It will be 99 years ago tomorrow on September 9, 1921 when one of the greatest shooting matches of all time took place at the Nationals at Camp Perry.  Dad Farr was 62 years old and didn't even own his own rifle.  He took a Springfield 1903 off the ordnance rack. He had a homemade spotting scope and used standard G. I. .30-06 issued ammo. 

"George (Dad) Farr fired 71 consecutive bullseyes at 1,000 yards using an unfamiliar rifle plucked from an ordnance rack earlier that day with iron sights."  

His string ended at 71 due to darkness. Nobody knows how many more bullseyes he could have shot had it not gotten dark.

It would have been interesting to see just how good Dad was if he had some really good equipment including a scope. 

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2017/7/dad-farrs-golden-afternoon-at-camp-perry/
http://www.bobrohrer.com/sea_stories/end_of_an_era.pdf
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/6/15/one-for-the-record-books-camp-perry-1921/

montanajoe

Flying Clay Disk said:

NeoBlackdog said:

Flying Clay Disk said:

C'mon guys!  Where are your manners????

@Lurchinark -  Welcome to Gunbroker!!

That's MontanaJoe's job!

He's slackin'! 

You didn't see the first two words of my reply??  Catch up.

nononsense

Hopefully this is the DPMS rifle you have:

For 500 yard shooting, the 18" barrels is sufficient. In fact we've shot bolt action rifles with 18" barrels out to 1,000 yards.

The keys to getting you started are:

- Good, better, best glass depending on what you choose to afford. Less expensive glass is no help so start your quest with better glass even if you have to stretch your budget a little more.

- Quality rings and base for the scope. Both the scope and the rings or base need to have some additional MOA elevation if and when you choose to shoot further. 20 MOA is usually standard.

- Triggers make a big difference when shooting longer ranges for accuracy. You might consider something in the 3.5 lb. range whether single stage or 2-stage.

- Bipod or front rest depends on how you want to shoot. From a bench, the front rest is actually the best solution. Grizzly has an inexpensive but responsive rest at a reasonable price:

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Bald-Eagle-Y-Rest-Cast-Iron/BE1006 

But if are comfortable shooting prone, a good bipod is great and portable. See photo above.

- Ammunition can be store bought or self loaded. Since you're just getting your feet wet, I suggest doing a survey of manufactured ammunition because there is a large selection of .308 Win. target loads which is high quality. This will allow you to get started and work your way into reloading when you want to.

- A good spotting scope will be helpful but not absolutely necessary.

- There is a selection of books and articles all about wind reading which I think you should get started on now.

I've used a .308 Win. gas gun when I started in that division of PRS competitions and had no trouble making it onto the 1,000 gong. I later switched to the 6mm Creedmoor. In F-Class (prone) competitions 800, 900, and 1,000 yards, I use one of several specialized cartridges and bullets, all from a front rest and a rear bag. There is a class for the .308 Win. and the .223 Rem. only but from a bipod only.

- Benchrest has a little broader selection of competition though not necessarily for gas guns. Most work is done from bolt action rifles.

From Kelbly's shop:

Best.

Lurchinark

Thank you for the awesome response.  The dpms I purchased has the collapsible stock and I dont think it has that barrel on it.  It is fall now and finding range time is a bit of a bear as all the bambi hunters are out scarfing up the ammo and range time.  I appreciate the recommendations.

Lurchinark

A few of you have mentioned good glass to start with, I have my eyes on a Vortex viper series scope 4x20 with a 50 mm objective? not sure i got the location of the 50 mm correct, but the target view of the scope is 50 mm.  I have purchased a bipod and some 20 round magazines to go with the 10 round I found locally.  I would think the 5 round factory mag would be better for shooting but loading the damn thing is stupid complicated.
 What are the recommendations for the trigger assembly about?  I understand what single stage is but not sure about 2 stage, does it refer to the break of the trigger? I was taught a smooth pull and let it surprise you.

select-fire

A good action with a great barrel and trigger...2-3# will get it done. Most great rifles are better than the shooter. Figuring out the ballistics is also the key. Cannot make a hit  without knowing. Then knowing cold bore where it hits... then dirty warm bore. Or cold bore dirty bore whichever you prefer which is my preference..

kimi

Lurchinark said:

Thank you for the info so far.  I do appreciate it and I gave up my need for manners a long time ago.  I currently consider long range to be 500 yards for ME.  I would love to get to the point I can go to 1k but I may be starting too late to accomplish that goal, we shall see. 

If you do not have any problem with your eyesight, and can shoot tight groups at 25 yards, you will probably be capable of shooting tight groups at most any range, with practice, that your rifle and ammo are made for.  500 yards is considered long range where maximum effective range for service rifles like the M-1 or M-14 play a role.  And, their iron sights are good out to at least 1000 yards.  welcome aboard, and good luck to your long range shooting adventure!

Okie

Speaking of long Range. CVA is trying to break out of it's shell with new guns. Seen a ad for a bolt action rifle in a NRA magazine list price around $650 and good review.

Check out this AD for a CVA Black Powder Rifle, non FFL requirement,  300-400 yard ADVERTISED muzzleloader built using a Remington 700 SA receiver list price around $800.
Now I did not say it's highly accurate a the distances advertised.
I've tried practicing long distance shooting with black powder rifles, using black [powder, for hunting large game. I was only  somewhat comfortable at a max of maybe $150 yards and kill zone of really around $125. The more powder I piled in the less consistent accuracy I got if over 100 grains.
Here is the CVA ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZwkAdGtQRc

Okie

Speaking of Long Range. Take this with a dab of salt and a big swig of JD.
More info about velocities and bullet drop from the CVA paramount.
Watch the gut shot Sage goat a 300 yards.
2250 muzzle vel, 1650 at 300 yards maybe.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=cva+paramount+muzzleloader&docid=607996438240234011&mid=B20F2BA8150707BB969CB20F2BA8150707BB969C&view=detail&FORM=VIRE