Deciding on caliber

Nanuq907

I’ve always only had pistols and a shotgun, and started thinking maybe it’s time to pick up an AR type short rifle. My son in law had tons of good advice and I like the looks of a shortie with 10 1/2” barrel in .223 for home defense. He has a hot holographic red dot optic for it and a 1,000 lumen light. So I’m pretty sold but am wondering, how would I like it in .308 instead? Then I’d have to go to a 12 1/2” barrel. I’d never use it for more than 100 yard shots.

Thoughts and opinions? 1,000 rounds of either ammo will be spendy, and I don’t need knock down power, I need “lots of lead downrange” capability.

Thanks in advance.

NeoBlackdog

1000 rounds of 5.56/.223 will be both cheaper and lighter than a thousand rounds of .308.
If you're going to the trouble of getting an SBR, you might as well go whole hog and get a suppressor for it, too.
Mr. Christian should be along any time now with some good advice and pictures!

montanajoe

 I don’t need knock down power, I need “lots of lead downrange” capability.

In that case, you could go 10/22 rifle with a hand crank on the trigger.  
Why the need for a rifle for home defense?  Are we talking inside defense or approaching the outside perimeter defense? 

Ricci.Wright

I have a ar pistol kit that I bought a year ago in an impulse buy situation. I have never assembled it cause upon further thought it seemed like nothing I would ever use. I much prefer a shotgun for the house. The .223 loses a lot of power out of a 10 or 11 inch barrel, and it is sooooo loud. It would be a toy to me and not one I would have any use for. I have 16" rifles with or without optics that are much better than a 10" gun for me. I still prefer a shotgun for the house and within 30 or 40 yards. Yea, I know, according to the u tube and the gun mags if you don't have an ar pistol and a dozen mags in a $150.00 backpack you just aren't gonna make it. And that's cool. I don't need a lot or reason to buy a cool new gun, but not one I would never use. This is just my opinion and is pretty much worth just what I am charging for it. I know a lot of guys on here have ar pistols and love them and again nothing wrong with that. Just not for me. By the way, you might want to go into a dark room and turn on that 1000 lum. light. You might find it blinds you as well as the bad guy. Some of the new lights are just too much for inside. Again just me. 

BikerBob

Here is an interesting article comparing the two along with the 300 BLK.

I think inside 100, all three are contenders. Obviously, if you’re defending your salmon from a brown bear the 308 carries more energy!

https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/556-vs-300-blackout-vs-308-winchester/

mark christian

If you require a super short rifle caliber barrel then you should consider 300 Blackout. That cartridge was designed from the start to function reliably with extremely short barrels. .308 with a 12-1/2" barrel? That's going to be brutal! 

Overall length between various AR short carbines comes out more or less the same between calibers:
Top- 300 Blackout w/8" barrel (usually run suppressed).
Center 5.56 w/10-1/2" barrel (going shorter usually requires a new buffer or adjustable gas block...or both).  
Bottom 9mm with 8 inch barrel. Straight blowback so any length of barrel works

mark christian

If OAL length in a rifle caliber is the deciding factor, you need to consider a PDW- Personal Defense Weapon:

10-1/2" barrel at the top and a 7-1/2" below (plus a long flash hider to make it bearable to shoot!). As I said, the PDW required a completely new buffer system (some models also require a special bolt carrier), but no alteration of the gas system. Out on the rifle range, firing a 5.56 PDW will make you extremely unpopular with those shooting beside you.  

select-fire

Just find a shortie or a full size AK . Ammo prices on the 7.62x39 are far more cheaper .

truthful

100 yard shots for home defense? Pretty big house.

select-fire

Ricci.Wright said:

I have a ar pistol kit that I bought a year ago in an impulse buy situation. I have never assembled it cause upon further thought it seemed like nothing I would ever use. I much prefer a shotgun for the house. The .223 loses a lot of power out of a 10 or 11 inch barrel, and it is sooooo loud. It would be a toy to me and not one I would have any use for. I have 16" rifles with or without optics that are much better than a 10" gun for me. I still prefer a shotgun for the house and within 30 or 40 yards. Yea, I know, according to the u tube and the gun mags if you don't have an ar pistol and a dozen mags in a $150.00 backpack you just aren't gonna make it. And that's cool. I don't need a lot or reason to buy a cool new gun, but not one I would never use. This is just my opinion and is pretty much worth just what I am charging for it. I know a lot of guys on here have ar pistols and love them and again nothing wrong with that. Just not for me. By the way, you might want to go into a dark room and turn on that 1000 lum. light. You might find it blinds you as well as the bad guy. Some of the new lights are just too much for inside. Again just me. 

Exact reason I sold my AR shortie . Loud..did I mention Loud. My 870 18' loaded with 00 will do everything it should. If it is out to 100 slam a deer slug in it. Those light recoil slugs punch 3/4 inch holes. Recoil isn't bad since the barrel is ported. I purchased some 3" 00 and at 40 yd it would take out at least one person. 15 .30 holes at a time.

mark christian

Although super short 5.56mm and 300 Black out carbines look "tacticool," for civilians the most useful purpose for the short barrels (11 inches or less) is so that you can run the rifles suppressed and maintain an OAL roughly the same as a 16" barrel carbine (shown at the bottom):

Beside sound suppression, a suppressor acts as the ultimate flash hider, and also serves as a decent muzzle break.

select-fire

Mark those are sweet

Nanuq907

Thanks gents! I was hoping my question would stir up a bunch of comments. You’ve given me a lot to think about. 3” 00 rounds in the shotgun still look like maybe my best choice.

toad67

I have a 20 gauge 870 youth gun as my home defense shotty. If 1 oz of #6's won't get it done at 10-20 feet, I'm probably done for...

mohawk600

I have built two AR pistols, both with 10.5" barrels and SBA3 braces.......the lowers even have consecutive serial numbers .  I am very happy with both of them.....but they are loud.

Nanuq907

Mohawk, how would they be suppressed?  130-140 dB?  That's still a heck of a racket inside a house.

Mobuck

"100 yard shots for home defense? Pretty big house."
Not everyone lives on a postage stamp and with current SYG/castle doctrine laws, 100 yards is "home defense".
"Mohawk, how would they be suppressed?  130-140 dB?  That's still a heck of a racket inside a house."
LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!  Even with a suppressor, the .223 is LOUD within confined spaces. Realistically, not even a sub-sonic 22 is "quiet" within a normal room sized space.
My AR9 "quasi-PDW" has a 10.5" barrel (should have used a 7.5-8") and with the TORRENT T9K using custom loaded sub-sonic 9mm ammo, it  is hearing safe  in the open.  You can hear the bullet strike above the sound of firing. Inside, I'm betting it'll ring your ears but far less than an open muzzle.

chiefr

Agree on the 300 Blackout if you go short.
A short 223 as mentioned is awful loud and along with the loud comes an intense blinding muzzle blast if you shoot in low light conditions.

redhawkk480

you might take a look at the 350 Legend , Winchester White box 145 FMJ just under $10 per box of 20 at Walmart

145 gr fmj at about 2200fps / rifle length barrel

SCOUT5

You may be surprised at the distance you can get from a 10.5" barrel chambered in 5.56.   The loss in velocity  compared to a 16" barrel is significant but it will still accurately shoot some distance.   Myself, I wouldn't want a barrel that short unless, like Mark said, I was going to suppress it.  Here are a couple of videos addressing the differences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z06pAJciuNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNZv5Z1LpqI
Some people do not like this guy but I've found his presentations informative, some more than others.  He doesn't cover everything but what he does cover he usually does a good job with.

mogley98

AR's = Barbie dolls for boys LOL, dress em up anyway you like.

You Alaska guys need a 44 mag camp rifle

Nanuq907

You must mean my stainless 1894 Marlin, Mister Kablooey!   He's all kinds of fun but Mister Mossberg pokes bigger holes and is just about as functional.
I'm thinking of something where 30 more bangs is just a click away.   But like the man said, at 40 yards 00 Buck pokes 15 nicely spaced holes at a go.

select-fire

I shot a deer last yr at 60 yd with a 3" 00 out of a 36" hastings x full choke. It never moved after being shot. It was an 8 point before I fired. The 00 took of its right antler and just left a base stub. It was a 5 pointer. It was running away from me with about a 25 % side shot from the rear. DRT.

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/whats-the-maximum-effective-range-of-buckshot/

Nanuq907

A friend of my dad was building a log cabin up on the Susitna river and got to the point where it needed wiring.  He needed a hole through a log, head high, and didn't have a drill.  So he got out the 30-06 and made a hole.  He forgot to open the door, and pretty much deafened himself for a week.

Mr. Perfect

Stick with 556 for rifle caliber home defense. Anyone that says otherwise is wrong.

mohawk600

Mobuck said:

"100 yard shots for home defense? Pretty big house."
Not everyone lives on a postage stamp and with current SYG/castle doctrine laws, 100 yards is "home defense".
"Mohawk, how would they be suppressed?  130-140 dB?  That's still a heck of a racket inside a house."
LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!  Even with a suppressor, the .223 is LOUD within confined spaces. Realistically, not even a s.ub-sonic 22 is "quiet" within a normal room sized space.
My AR9 "quasi-PDW" has a 10.5" barrel (should have used a 7.5-8") and with the TORRENT T9K using custom loaded sub-sonic 9mm ammo, it  is hearing safe  in the open.  You can hear the bullet strike above the sound of firing. Inside, I'm betting it'll ring your ears but far less than an open muzzle.

It doesnt need to be supressed......  i never said that.......only commented on how loud short barrels are.  I have 5.56 and 300 BLK....both in 10.5 and both are loud

SCOUT5

My point is if it isn't suppressed I would rather have the longer barrel and the extra velocity,   The only reason I would have a shorter barrel is so when the suppressor is on the gun isn't to long.