New war with the Christians vs the muslims

Sam06

Looks war has broken out again between Armenia and Azerbaijan.  Turkey is on side of the muslims(Azerbaijan) and there is no love lost between Armenia and Turkey.

C&P

Fighting raged again between Armenia and Azerbaijan last night as the two ex-Soviet nations battle over a disputed region in a conflict which could erupt into a proxy war between Russia and Turkey. 

Azerbaijan aired footage of two Armenian tanks being blown up on the battlefield while Armenia claimed to have taken out 80 armoured vehicles, 49 drones and four Azerbaijani helicopters as of Monday night. 

Armenia warned today that it would deploy more destructive weapons in the conflict because of what it described as an Azerbaijani offensive, saying the fighting had been 'elevated to a new level'. 

Both sides accused the other of firing heavy artillery in fighting which has killed dozens of people, allegedly including civilians, since the latest violence broke out on Sunday in the disputed Nagorno-Karakbakh region. 

Separatists in the region, which is mainly inhabited by ethnic Armenians, are fighting for secession from Azerbaijan - which has the strident backing of its close ally Turkey. 

Armenia, which is backing the separatists, last night accused Turkey of 'supporting Azerbaijan to carry out genocidal acts', a reference to the early 20th-century massacre which it calls the Armenian Genocide and which still poisons relations between Turkey and Armenia. 

Martial law has been declared in both countries and Armenia has banned men over 18 in its military reserves from leaving the country as fighting continues despite global pleas for calm.  

A move to all-out war could draw in nuclear-armed Russia, which has a military base in Armenia but has called for the hostilities to be 'immediately ended'. 

US secretary of state Mike Pompeo said today that 'both sides need to stop the violence' while German chancellor Angela Merkel called for an 'immediate ceasefire' and France called for a revival of peace talks.

For those who are geographically challenged

I am sure we will stick our nose in it in some way.  I have never been to Armenia but I have been to Azerbaijan and Georgia.

Sam06

I just read that Turkey has shot down an Armenian Jet and Turkey stated "The world will hear our roar".  Oh boy this could get interesting.

Sam06

This is politics?

mark christian

I've never been to Azerbaijan. At the time I was in that region visas were difficult to obtain, but that is no longer the case. Armenia was quite nice- good beer. The politics in that region were complicated by the breakup of the old Soviet Union. Moscow employed an iron first to keep various factions in check. The Armenian community has political influence in the United States, so we will most likely take their side. 

A cold beer and a good lunch in Armenia:

Sam06

That looks good Mark.  I ate Indian food today..................goat curry and it was outstanding.  I have always like the food in most foreign country's and love to sample the beer. 

When I was in Azerbijan I was at an old Soviet air base and was there only a few days.  It was dusty and we didn't get to go off base so I really didn't see much of it.

I was in Georgia for about 6 months training their soldiers(CQB) and enjoyed my stay there.  It was before they got into it with Russia over South Ostentia(sp?) and I was sorry to see how poorly they preformed.  They had good food and the beer was nice. 

mark christian

An example of the political power wielded by the Armenia community in CA- which is the nation's largest, was AB 1320 which targeted Turkey:

https://a46.asmdc.org/press-releases/20190523-landmark-turkish-divestment-bill-passes-california-assembly

Don McManus

mark christian said:

I've never been to Azerbaijan. At the time I was in that region visas were difficult to obtain, but that is no longer the case. Armenia was quite nice- good beer. The politics in that region were complicated by the breakup of the old Soviet Union. Moscow employed an iron first to keep various factions in check. The Armenian community has political influence in the United States, so we will most likely take their side. 

While Trump has a habit of snubbing NATO member states, Mark, I doubt any formal siding with Armenia would take place absent an understanding with Brussels.  We sided with the Muslims last time against the Serbs, and there are many that question whether we did the right thing.

mark christian

Just so that no one imagines I'm pulling a Mr. Mike, here is am in Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia:

And Yerevan, the capital of Armenia:

What further complicate the issue is that Armenia is firmly in the Russian sphere of influence.  With the exception of Armenia and Belarus, the other former Soviet Republics have either distanced themselves from Moscow, or joined NATO in order to protect themselves. There are a lot of disenfranchised Russian in that region of the world; particularly in Georgia, which, as Sam mentioned has been fragmented by two breakaway areas: South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which are loyal Russian client states. Putin solved his problem with Chechnya the old fashioned way: he bought them off! It's amazing what several billion $$$ in direct aid will do to change you enemy's mindset. Grozny , which which had once looked like Warsaw in 1944, is now a showpiece city. 

Americans don't understand this region any more than we understood the Balkans and Yugoslavia. Whatever we do- if we do anything, it will be a huge mistake and will make us even more enemies. 
 

BobJudy

mark christian said:

Just so that no one imagines I'm pulling a Mr. Mike, here is am in Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia:

And Yerevan, the capital of Armenia:

What further complicate the issue is that Armenia is firmly in the Russian sphere of influence.  With the exception of Armenia and Belarus, the other former Soviet Republics have either distanced themselves from Moscow, or joined NATO in order to protect themselves. There are a lot of disenfranchised Russian in that region of the world; particularly in Georgia, which, as Sam mentioned has been fragmented by two breakaway areas: South Ossetia and Abkhazia, both of which are loyal Russian client states. Putin solved his problem with Chechnya the old fashioned way: he bought them off! It's amazing what several billion $$$ in direct aid will do to change you enemy's mindset. Grozny , which which had once looked like Warsaw in 1944, is now a showpiece city. 

Americans don't understand this region any more than we understood the Balkans and Yugoslavia. Whatever we do- if we do anything, it will be a huge mistake and will make us even more enemies. 
 

Dang! You don't look that mean.😁

What are the two odd looking truncated cylinders over your right shoulder in line with the bridge? Any more trips planned if this covid crap ever goes away? Bob

mark christian

I should give the the two cylinders automatic mention. Although the look like some sort giant ventilation system (or worse) they are actually office buildings.

These two structures were controversy in Tbilisi, which had tried to maintain an "old world" appeal. If you look to the right of my shoulder in first previous photo, you can see a cathedral. it is not old, it is new, but built in the classic style:

Georgia is a nation which can't decide exactly what it want's to be. Here is the main border crossing with Turkey along the black Sea:
Can anyone find that building attractive? Yet Georgia, where the average wage is around $350 per MONTH, spent big money on this eyesore.

Sorry. This post wasn't meant to be a travel guide. 

bustedknee

Let's see if I understand this:

Muslims and Christians don't get along. Heck, Muslims and no one else get along.

But muslims have no compunction to ridding the world of everyone else.

Everyone else has decided to tolerate, appease, and bribe the muslims.

I wonder how this will turn out....

mark christian

bustedknee said:

I wonder how this will turn out....

If it turns into a religious discussion then it gets banned, because religion- or at least someone preaching the one sect/cult is somehow superior or better than another, is a prohibited topic in these forums. If this stays political topic then it remains in the political forum. The choice is, as always, up to the membership.