Rifle decision

Nanuq907

After reading everyone commenting on Marlin model 1894s lately I've spent probably too much time looking and drooling at them.  I already have a Marline .357mag lever action, and a Mossberg 12ga chock full of magnum slugs and 00 Buck.  My primary concern is 1,200# brown bears running toward me on close trails.
Do I "neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed" a Model 1894 in .44mag?  Or have I fallen into the trap of "My Precious, I must have it"?  I'd think a magnum 12ga. slug out of the Mossberg is more of a bear deterrent than a Marlin.

Someone talk me out of it?

gjshaw

Congratulations on a great decision. Just do it......

🥴😊

savage170

Go for it they're great rifles. Buffalo Bore has a nice heavy load for it

BikerBob

You can get the .44mag with a 20” barrel that will hold 10 rounds. I think the largest capacity I’ve seen on the 12 Ga pump is 8.

Both should hold enough. I don’t think reloading is an option you’d have.

Ricci.Wright

A bear trying to eat me and a decision between a .44 mag and a 12 ga. slug?? That won't take long to choose.

Mobuck

Two comments:
1: The pump shotgun is going to be easier to maintain than a Marlin lever gun AND cheaper. A Mossberg 500 is a consumable.
2: Depending on your experience and skill, the shotgun might be easier to hit with and cycle than a lever gun. 
I'm a longtime user of a pump shotgun and know full well the rate of "AIMED" fire can be impressive. I'm also not a fan of "magnum" slugs (or buckshot for that matter) for close range use. At 50', the penetration capability of the slug is more important than the velocity. "Magnum" just slows rate of fire because of recoil.

BobJudy

Why not go big?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/880589104
Bob

Grasshopper

as above, Marlin 45-70

nmyers

Well, on the series "Alaska State Trooper", they always pull out a 12 ga "riot gun" when on a "bad bear" call.  I never heard the type ammo used, but would assume that slugs would be the best choice. 

I'm with Mobuck.

Neal

bpost

Carry the shotgun but buy the rifle.  Having a rifle you want is better than wanting it and not having it.

NeoBlackdog

bpost said:

Carry the shotgun but buy the rifle.  Having a rifle you want is better than wanting it and not having it.

Bpost, it's enablers like you that keep me in trouble with my wife!!!  

hillbille

that 357 is to small for even those alaskan chipmunks, just send it to me before you get hurt or get yourself in trouble, and go and get either that 44 or the 45 in a new lever gun, you will feel safer and I will feel better taking that popgun off your hands........

Sam06

Try to find a older used one.

I would look at a Marlin Guide gun in 45-70, now you are talking bear medicine.  That was my goto rifle when I was up there fishing.

SCOUT5

45-70

bullshot

You need this, 45-70

[img]https://i.imgur.com/aNSBqMO.jpg[/img]

4205raymond

375 H&H 22" barrel with old Redfield 1 3/4-to 4 or 5,  TV lens and one piece base so you can see all of him. He won't get up and eat you alive. Was in University of Alaska Museum  in '89. Some real monsters up there and in BC, Yukon. ----------------------------Ray
PS: Shucks you could even down load it for deer.

Ridefar

Nanuq,

You did say that your primary concern was 1200lb brown bear defense close up so....    .375 Ruger or .416 Ruger with proper bullets would be my choice.

Don't let me talk you out of a nice vintage Marlin, but given what you have now that Mossberg full of rifled slugs under stress is probably the best bet. Just my .02 and I don't pretend to know anything about anything.

Be safe out there.

badchris

I'll be another enabler. Buy the rifle (if it's JM stamped) but use the shotty for da bears. If possible, I'd carry an RPG for a 1200 pound killing machine. 
I do some camping in western Pa so black bear is our concern. Either a 357 mag or 45 auto on my hip, but the 12 gauge is always within reach. 

dreher

50 years ago I lived a year in Alaska.  The guy who lived three doors down from me was a brown bear guide.  He told me that if a client wounded a brownie and it made it into an alder thicket the first response was wait for half an hour and hope Mr. Brown Bear bleeds out.  After waiting for half an hour he would switch from his rifle to Mr. 870, 12 gauge, loaded with 00 buck.  He told me it had only happened two times but when Mr. Brown Bear is real unhappy with you and is less than 15 feet away when he starts coming for you, 100% it will be a long time before you will need a laxative!!          

Nanuq907

Sounds like Mister Mossberg will continue to be my hiking partner.  I've always loaded up with slugs, but you guys are making me think 00 buck is a better choice.  Max distance would be 30 yards and it's likely I'll be shooting into alders.  

Ricci.Wright

Slug, Buckshot, Slug, Buckshot, Slug, Buckshot. It goes like that.

bustedknee

Nanuq

If you are legitimately concerned about the big bears, check out this Forest Service study.  They recommend a minimum of 30-06 rifle or a 12 gauge shotgun.

https://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf

Think about it like this:  The 44 magnum is actually less powerful that a 30-30!  Would you hunt Brown Bears with a 30-30?  Most times when hunting bears you sneak up on a peaceful bear minding his own business and he is not madder than a hornet and charging out of the brush.

When I worked for the FS (in Alaska) we had to qualify with a 375 H&H Magnum.  There were some very small ladies that qualified and never complained about the recoil.

I owned a Marlin 1894 when I lived in SE (Petersburg) and hunted Blacktail deer with it.  That big hole puts those little deer down pretty effectively.  I sent it to a gunsmith in California that specialized in converting it into a take-apart carbine.  Broke down, it fit in a pistol case which fit under an airplane seat.  Very handy.

select-fire

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/10-best-bear-defense-guns-pics/

truthful

Short barreled Marlin 1894s are good defensive tools for man or beast, BUT be sure to have the gun checked out and testede over and over before depending on it to protect your life. The Marlin 1894s are notorious for the "Dreaded Marlin Jam" in which with one cartridge on the carrier headed toward the bore, a second cartridge is fed from the magazine causing a jam.

Toolman286

I agree with bpost. Buy the rifle & carry the 12ga. The 12 ga slug is almost twice as heavy, almost twice the diameter & delivers almost twice the ft. lbs. of energy. Some loads advertise 3000 ft. lbs. 

Nanuq907

Toolman286 said:

I agree with bpost. Buy the rifle & carry the 12ga. The 12 ga slug is almost twice as heavy, almost twice the diameter & delivers almost twice the ft. lbs. of energy. Some loads advertise 3000 ft. lbs. 

3,000 ft lbs?  THOSE are numbers I can live with.  I find it incredibly easy to swing the Mossberg up into firing position, even at the hip, and send lead where I'm looking. 
I found some magnum shells that have two 3/4" lead balls and those things are devastating.  At 40 yards the balls only separate about 2" so they make a nice long diagonal opening in whatever you're aiming at.  I'm thinking two spheres 3/4" diameter in lead will probably carry more kinetic energy than one slug, and make a much bigger hole.  Anyone else tried these?

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/50-rds-12-gauge-2-3-4-2-round-ball-shotgun-ammo?a=864940

savage170

I have some that duplicate the old buck and ball load one 58 cal ball and 9 00 pellets so far the only thing I've shot with them was a evil watermelon pretty much turned it into a fine mist

drobs

Marlins just don't speak to me like Winchesters do.

gjshaw

https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11220617#Comment_11220617

+1

savage170

I like both the Winchester holds a edge on looks for me but I like the Marlin better for a hunting rifle

Mr. Perfect

If you don't buy it, you'll forever be branded a pussie.

Mr. Perfect

Okie said:

Seen in a Brownells gunsmith book where a Park Ranger in Alaska was telling hikers to carry a can of bear spray for the bears before going hiking in the Park. Also watch for bear scat along the trails. If you see some with Berries and some leaves that is a Black bear.
If you see some bear scat with Pieces of a Bear spray can, pieces of clothes and bones that would be a Griz.
Also take someone with you that you can outrun.

This is the stupidest pile of horse hockey in the history of ever,

SCOUT5

Marlins are easier than a Winchester to put optics on, scope, red dot, reflex what ever.   That's the primary reason I like Marlins over Winchesters.  I do like the Rossi 92 made on a Winchester pattern but I'm not going to put optics on it.

Butchdog2

Bear hockey, not horse hockey.

William81

I went bow hunting for bear in Canada several years ago.   It was unguided and I was to be left by boat each afternoon and picked up later in the evening. The owner of the lodge told me to bring a 12 gauge shotgun with me for back up...His instructions were to load a slug, followed by 00 buckshot and finally another slug.....

Seems like a good way to go to me.....      

bpost

I shot a lot of moose and caribou while living in Alaska.  I never went bear hunting simply because they STINK to high heaven and you can't eat a grizzly.  I never felt under gunned with the .338WM BAR I carried but felt naked with the 30-06, both were awesome medicine for the hunting I was doing.  Avoiding the bears is the best lesson I learned.  But if push came to shove a .22 in the face of a charging bear is better than a fly swatter.  Me thinks you are on the right track with the shotgun.  The 45-70 loaded with HEAVY bullets driven hard would be my second choice.  Of course it is always wise to hunt with some folks you trust with your life or can outrun by a large margin.

kumate

ruger 1 460 smith

drobs

Just carry a 9mm with Buffalo Bore ammo.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2016/8/10/alaska-outfitter-defends-fishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/

bustedknee

Years ago a woman killed an attacking polar bear by stuffing her mitten down his throat and choking him to death.

I have mittens but I don't carry them for bear defense. Both the bear and I are dead serious.

Nanuq907

Stuffing a mitt down his throat?  She'd need arms 3 feet long.  These things are HUGE.  Oh man, don't remind me of polar bears.  It's taken me years to get where I can sleep at night again.  I was mauled once, and when that bear got started it was impossible to break free.  He held on and just kept ripping and tearing.  Here's how big they can get:


Luckily my bear wasn't quite as big so he didn't have the same strength.  He would have killed me instantly.  But still it's incredible how strong they are, and how determined.  They are the apex predator and they WILL eat you.  I managed to get away with my life.  But the scars will never fade.

I have photos of the attack, but none from the aftermath.  The damage he inflicted was incredible, it took hours and hours to do the stitching up, and it's made me the recluse I am today.  I can't go out in public wearing the shredded remains he left.  I think there was well over 300 stitches just to get the big pieces put back together.  You might not want to look, and I might get banned from the forum for posting these.  I know this is a family-friendly site and these are probably way WAY too graphic.

So scroll down if you want to see, but be forewarned.  You can't un-see some things.




















Be sure you want to continue scrolling down.  Consider backing out now, save yourself the graphic shock of the pictures.

















OK here are the pictures of my mauling.   *shudder*


I lost a perfectly good pair of pants and shoes!

RobOz

You had me looking