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Other interesting observation based on Einstein's relativity equations/theory- Gravity not a force

Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,459 ✭✭✭✭


Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain

Comments

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭
    Did not watch much of the video, but it was understood and taught in the little public high school I attended that gravity itself was not a force, rather the interaction of mass with gravity resulted in force.

    Newton had the basic concept, as he understood that the force created by gravity between two objects was proportional to the mass of the objects and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between said objects.   

    Einstein brings time into the equation, which creates some interesting relativistic points of view, particularly when dealing with extreme velocities.  

    Is this what is being discussed, or should I watch the video when time is available.
    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,459 ✭✭✭✭
    Did not watch much of the video, but it was understood and taught in the little public high school I attended that gravity itself was not a force, rather the interaction of mass with gravity resulted in force.

    Newton had the basic concept, as he understood that the force created by gravity between two objects was proportional to the mass of the objects and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between said objects.   

    Einstein brings time into the equation, which creates some interesting relativistic points of view, particularly when dealing with extreme velocities.  

    Is this what is being discussed, or should I watch the video when time is available.

    I suggest you watch it.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 17,577 ✭✭✭✭
    Care to lay it out for a layman LOL
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,459 ✭✭✭✭
    mogley98 said:
    Care to lay it out for a layman LOL

    That's what the video does.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭✭
    NASA says it is a force but that may be because of the need to define it that way in their flight calculations. 
    https://spaceplace.nasa.gov/what-is-gravity/en/
    Bob
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15
    I suggest you watch it.
    Ok, I watched it.

    Not 100% sure what he is trying to say here.  For virtually every motion that people experience, Newtonian physics explains things adequately.  Calling the acceleration of gravity a curve in spacetime because it is the result of deviation from a geodesic path caused by an applied metric tensor does not change the fact that it is a result of the acceleration of gravity.  We all agree that gravity is not a force, and I believe that the statement that there is no such things as gravitational fields must be re-visited as the recent observation of what may be gravity waves (as predicted to exist by AE) suggests the possibility that gravitational fields may in fact exist.

    I guess the the simple question is:  Does curved spacetime cause the acceleration we call gravity, is the acceleration we call gravity the curvature of space time, or does the acceleration we call gravity cause the curvature of spacetime?

    But more importantly, how does it effect the masses?







    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • bpostbpost Member Posts: 30,976 ✭✭✭✭
    The guy that is cartooned falling will feel the full effects of gravity when he lands....
  • spasmcreeksrunspasmcreeksrun Member Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭
  • BarzilliaBarzillia Member Posts: 21,887 ✭✭✭

    Imagine three bodies, A, B, and C.

     Bodies A and C  are separated from central body B by 3 parsecs, and 10 parsecs, respectively.

     Body B blips instantaneously out of existence at time T.

     

    Which body will experience the gravitational attraction from B at 0  first , and at what time(s)  ?

    "Anger has two children -.hope, and courage." Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

    "Und es wird nicht hineingehen irgend ein Gemeines und das da Greuel tut und Luge,
    sondern die geschrieben sind in dem Lebensbuch des Lammes."
  • susiesusie Member Posts: 5,662 ✭✭✭

    And that is why I didn't major in a hard science. Lol. I start out following fairly well then I hit a rabbit hole.

  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭

    A will cease to see b in approximately 10 years, and will cease to feel its pull at approximately the same time. C will do the same at approximately 33 years.

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • BarzilliaBarzillia Member Posts: 21,887 ✭✭✭
    Imagine three bodies, A, B, and C.<\/p>

     Bodies A and C  are separated from central body B by 3 parsecs, and 10 parsecs, respectively.<\/p>

     Body B blips instantaneously out of existence at time T.<\/p>

     <\/p>

    Which body will experience the gravitational attraction from B at 0  first , and at what time(s)  ?<\/p>","bodyRaw":"

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    &nbsp;Bodies A and C&nbsp; are separated from central body B by 3 parsecs, and 10 parsecs, respectively.<\/p>

    &nbsp;Body B blips instantaneously out of existence at time T.<\/p>

    &nbsp;<\/p>

    Which body will experience the gravitational attraction from B at 0&nbsp; first , and at what time(s) &nbsp;?<\/p>","format":"wysiwyg","dateInserted":"2020-10-17T14:37:19+00:00","insertUser":{"userID":343415,"name":"Barzillia","url":"https:\/\/forums.gunbroker.com\/profile\/Barzillia","photoUrl":"https:\/\/us.v-cdn.net\/6031683\/uploads\/phpbb\/n116c87db70253cfa97f7db3c9c349670_343415.jpg","dateLastActive":"2020-10-18T12:38:33+00:00","label":"✭✭✭"},"displayOptions":{"showUserLabel":false,"showCompactUserInfo":true,"showDiscussionLink":false,"showPostLink":false,"showCategoryLink":false,"renderFullContent":false,"expandByDefault":false},"url":"https:\/\/forums.gunbroker.com\/discussion\/comment\/11222855#Comment_11222855","embedType":"quote"}"> https://forums.gunbroker.com/discussion/comment/11222855#Comment_11222855

    A will cease to see b in approximately 10 years, and will cease to feel its pull at approximately the same time. C will do the same at approximately 33 years.

    Seeing it is not the question.

    Do you have a reference for the speed of gravitational force ?
    "Anger has two children -.hope, and courage." Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

    "Und es wird nicht hineingehen irgend ein Gemeines und das da Greuel tut und Luge,
    sondern die geschrieben sind in dem Lebensbuch des Lammes."
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭

    the esteemed scientific journal, Forbes, seems to agree with Mr. Einstein that a gravity field propagates at roughly the speed of light. This is corroborated by other sources as well. It is difficult to prove, of course, as we have yet to exploit the trans-light speeds available through sub-space, but from a practical viewpoint, it seems a reasonable place to start.

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • BarzilliaBarzillia Member Posts: 21,887 ✭✭✭
    A fine discussion and prediction, but not demonstrated at this point by any research..

    https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.119.161102


    The answer to the question is that nobody knows.
    "Anger has two children -.hope, and courage." Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

    "Und es wird nicht hineingehen irgend ein Gemeines und das da Greuel tut und Luge,
    sondern die geschrieben sind in dem Lebensbuch des Lammes."
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 19

    The fact that you do not think I know does not mean I do not know.


    i think.

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • mohawk600mohawk600 Member Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭

    The fact that you do not think I know does not mean I do not know.


    i think.

    ............therefore YOU ARE.
  • BarzilliaBarzillia Member Posts: 21,887 ✭✭✭
    "I honestly beleave it iz better tew know nothing than two know what ain’t so."  Josh Billings, 1874
    "Anger has two children -.hope, and courage." Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

    "Und es wird nicht hineingehen irgend ein Gemeines und das da Greuel tut und Luge,
    sondern die geschrieben sind in dem Lebensbuch des Lammes."
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭

    This quote suggests you know it is not so.

    But you do not know it is not so.


    Perhaps time will tell.

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • BarzilliaBarzillia Member Posts: 21,887 ✭✭✭
    Or it means that it is wiser to remain non-committal, rather than to claim certainty in areas when the knowledge is uncertain.
    "Anger has two children -.hope, and courage." Augustine, Bishop of Hippo

    "Und es wird nicht hineingehen irgend ein Gemeines und das da Greuel tut und Luge,
    sondern die geschrieben sind in dem Lebensbuch des Lammes."
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭
    Actually that is not true.

    It says it is better not to know than to know that which is not.  

    Your interpretation of its meaning is not in alignment with the statement.

    While it is my belief that the quote from Billings is correct and you are also correct in your statement, the two are quite  different.

    Or, if you prefer, relatively different.




    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • Nanuq907Nanuq907 Member Posts: 448 ✭✭✭
    edited October 20
    Barzillia said:
    Or it means that it is wiser to remain non-committal, rather than to claim certainty in areas when the knowledge is uncertain.
    That argues against all scientific endeavour.  The idea of science is to push into unknown areas, form hypotheses, produce results and publish them to challenge others to disprove your efforts.  The more your results are proved the more certain is the knowledge.  But many or most scientific endeavours result in theories, not proofs.  Hence uncertainty will always remain.
  • asopasop Member Posts: 7,195 ✭✭✭
    And on the liter side, isn't that "Flash Gordons" space ship :o
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