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Without Using Google or any Other References

armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
edited October 18 in General Discussion
Can anyone identify this World War ll weapon ??????


Comments

  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭
  • waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭

    I believe it is a 30 caliber machine gun that was fitted with a rifle stock in the pacific theater. If I remember right the stock was field fitted and they used the gun from damaged aircraft. The gun used on aircraft had a higher cyclic rate than the stand 30 caliber air cooled Browning machine gun.

  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
    Sam06 nailed it there were 6 of them that were kinda hand built by the Marines to use on Iwo Jima. They took a 30 cal machine gun receiver and fitted it with the barrel from a 30 cal aircraft machine gun and fitted it to a M1 Garand stock.
    There's a series on the Smithsonian channel called the Weapon Hunter and I believe it re airs this week where they build one.
  • mogley98mogley98 Member Posts: 17,577 ✭✭✭✭
    A gun
    Why don't we go to school and work on the weekends and take the week off!
  • iceracerxiceracerx Member Posts: 8,791 ✭✭✭
  • discusdaddiscusdad Member Posts: 12,713 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18
    ice is correct.  this was used in ETO,  is even pictured in Band of Brothers. M1919 30 cal light machine gun.  commonly used with bi-pod  eliminated the tri-pod usage.. former tripod carrier got to hump more ammo
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
    discusdad said:
    ice is correct.  this was used in ETO,  is even pictured in Band of Brothers. M1919 30 cal light machine gun.  commonly used with bi-pod  eliminated the tri-pod usage.. former tripod carrier got to hump more ammo
    No  it is what Sam06 said it is a Stinger not a M1919 Look at the picture closer what M1919 has a Garand buttstock.
  • BrookwoodBrookwood Member Posts: 7,646 ✭✭✭
    I take my hat off to all you gun experts here!    All I know is that I would sure hate to be on the receiving end of that weapon!
  • Ricci.WrightRicci.Wright Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭
    Well Sam06 cheated cause he had one of those on the Space Shuttle.
  • hillbillehillbille Member Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭
    Well Sam06 cheated cause he had one of those on the Space Shuttle.
    and Mrmike has it in his closet.......
  • Don McManusDon McManus Member Posts: 21,840 ✭✭✭✭

    It has also been fitted with a BAR bipod and carry handle.

    Freedom and a submissive populace cannot co-exist.

    Brad Steele
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,619 ✭✭✭
    edited October 19
    It is an interesting piece.  At first glance my thought was that it was pieced together.  This weapon was not one found in Marine Corps history lessons for recruits during 1960 to 1971, that's for certain, and that is very odd, indeed.  That said, I cannot imagine an Army unit having to build such a gun since they are known for having the latest and greatest military arms and equipment, while the Marines are known for doing the most with the least when it comes to this kind of issue.  
    What's next?
  • discusdaddiscusdad Member Posts: 12,713 ✭✭✭✭
    i was also somewhat correct,  but not for the gun pictured.  In 1944 the Army was seeing the shortcomings of the BAR and its 20 round magazine and turned its attention to the venerable M1919 again,  that cheaper to build compared to the BAR,  and not so limited as far as ammo capacity.  thus  the M1919A6 was born.  bipod held and shoulder stock mounted,  it soon provided more firepower at the squad level.  this was not an aircraft model...
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
    discusdad said:
    i was also somewhat correct,  but not for the gun pictured.  In 1944 the Army was seeing the shortcomings of the BAR and its 20 round magazine and turned its attention to the venerable M1919 again,  that cheaper to build compared to the BAR,  and not so limited as far as ammo capacity.  thus  the M1919A6 was born.  bipod held and shoulder stock mounted,  it soon provided more firepower at the squad level.  this was not an aircraft model...
    Only the barrel was from an aircraft. Like I said earlier this was pieced together by some ingenious Marines on Iwo Jima. there were only 6 built.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
    For those of you that have the Smithsonian channel they are going to build a replica of this gun this Wednesday on the Weapon Hunter airing at 3:00 pm cst.
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
    kimi said:
    It is an interesting piece.  At first glance my thought was that it was pieced together.  This weapon was not one found in Marine Corps history lessons for recruits during 1960 to 1971, that's for certain, and that is very odd, indeed.  That said, I cannot imagine an Army unit having to build such a gun since they are known for having the latest and greatest military arms and equipment, while the Marines are known for doing the most with the least when it comes to this kind of issue.  
    It absolutely was pieced together not much to say about it in history other then 6 were built.
  • waltermoewaltermoe Member Posts: 332 ✭✭✭

    kimi, read the article you gave a link to.

    So I was right, they used the. AN/M2 off an aircraft and that was lighter and had a faster rate of fire.

  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,619 ✭✭✭
    armilite said:
    kimi said:
    It is an interesting piece.  At first glance my thought was that it was pieced together.  This weapon was not one found in Marine Corps history lessons for recruits during 1960 to 1971, that's for certain, and that is very odd, indeed.  That said, I cannot imagine an Army unit having to build such a gun since they are known for having the latest and greatest military arms and equipment, while the Marines are known for doing the most with the least when it comes to this kind of issue.  
    It absolutely was pieced together not much to say about it in history other then 6 were built.
    Ultra rare and for good reasons, but here's a great story about one put together by a Marine Medal of Honor recipient:

    Meet the Stinger: The Homemade Light Machine Gun that Won Its Inventor the Medal of Honor

    The United States Marine Corps is known for doing more with less—though making their own rifles is unusual.

    During the Second World War, the M1919 Browning Machine Gun was the United States’ standard-issue general purpose machine gun. It fired the powerful .30-06 rifle cartridge, and greatly augmented an infantry unit’s available firepower. Still, the M1919 was a crew-served weapon and required a five-man crew to operate: a commander, gunner, assistant gunner, and two ammunition carriers. The machine gun alone weighed over 30 pounds or 14 kilos, and with a removable bipod, weight ballooned upwards, becoming excessively heavy for a single soldier to operate.

    There was however, a lighter version of the M1919. The .30 AN/M2 was a redesigned variant of the M1919 design. The AN/M2 was built for use exclusively on aircraft and had a significantly higher rate of fire. Since it was designed to be used at higher altitudes where air is cooler, the AN/M2 could afford to use a thinner, lighter weight barrel. Overall, the platform weighed less thanks to thinner stamped parts and was in total about a third lighter than its M1919 relative.

    Scrounging Around

    In the Pacific, Marines were able to get their hands on the lighter AN/M2 variant by scrounging them from downed or otherwise out-of-commission aircraft. Though these machine guns were not intended for dismounted use, a couple of enterprising Marines realized that the aircraft guns were well-suited to the dense, close-quarters warfare typical of the Pacific Theatre. During the Marine assault on Bougainville, the value of a more mobile, high-firepower package became clearly apparent. It was there that a couple of AN/M2s jerry-rigged into portable weapons.

    Initially, the result was rather crude. The spade-style trigger and handle grouping was retained, the only difference being a bipod—likely from a BAR—being attached to the barrel. While this modification was helpful, it was rather ungainly and next to impossible to shoot from a non-prone position.

    Stinger

    Further modifications were done to the AN/M2, producing the final, ultimate Stinger. Few of the motley rifles were produced. They mated an AN/M2 receiver to a sawed-off M1 Garand buttstock, a BAR bipod and sights, and a custom-made trigger package. The resulting rifle was staggering in its capabilities.

    The Stinger’s rate of fire was its biggest strength but also its biggest vulnerability. Ammunition would be quickly exhausted, and the barrel was prone to overheating, as it was designed to be cooled by cool 300 mile-per-hour winds at thousands of feet in the air.

    One young Marine Corporal, Tony Stein, favored the Stinger. He would be among the first to land at Iwo Jima, where he was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions on the volcanic island’s beaches. His Medal of Honor citation reads:

    “The first man of his unit to be on station after hitting the beach in the initial assault, Corporal Stein, armed with a personally improvised aircraft-type weapon, provided rapid covering fire as the remainder of his platoon attempted to move into position…Cool and courageous under the merciless hail of exploding shells and bullets which fell on all sides, he continued to deliver the fire of his skillfully improvised weapon at a tremendous rate of speed which rapidly exhausted his ammunition.”

    Not too shabby for an improvised mish-mash of rifle parts.

    Caleb Larson is a Defense Writer with The National Interest. He holds a Master of Public Policy and covers U.S. and Russian security, European defense issues, and German politics and culture.
     



    What's next?
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member Posts: 59,459 ✭✭✭✭
    armilite said:
    Can anyone identify this World War ll weapon ??????



    Yes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • Sam06Sam06 Member Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭
    What do I win??
    RLTW

  • hillbillehillbille Member Posts: 11,213 ✭✭✭
    Sam06 said:
    What do I win??
    careful what you wish for around here...........
  • armilitearmilite Member Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭
    kimi said:
    armilite said:
    kimi said:
    It is an interesting piece.  At first glance my thought was that it was pieced together.  This weapon was not one found in Marine Corps history lessons for recruits during 1960 to 1971, that's for certain, and that is very odd, indeed.  That said, I cannot imagine an Army unit having to build such a gun since they are known for having the latest and greatest military arms and equipment, while the Marines are known for doing the most with the least when it comes to this kind of issue.  
    It absolutely was pieced together not much to say about it in history other then 6 were built.
    Ultra rare and for good reasons, but here's a great story about one put together by a Marine Medal of Honor recipient:

    Meet the Stinger: The Homemade Light Machine Gun that Won Its Inventor the Medal of Honor

    The United States Marine Corps is known for doing more with less—though making their own rifles is unusual.

    During the Second World War, the M1919 Browning Machine Gun was the United States’ standard-issue general purpose machine gun. It fired the powerful .30-06 rifle cartridge, and greatly augmented an infantry unit’s available firepower. Still, the M1919 was a crew-served weapon and required a five-man crew to operate: a commander, gunner, assistant gunner, and two ammunition carriers. The machine gun alone weighed over 30 pounds or 14 kilos, and with a removable bipod, weight ballooned upwards, becoming excessively heavy for a single soldier to operate.

    There was however, a lighter version of the M1919. The .30 AN/M2 was a redesigned variant of the M1919 design. The AN/M2 was built for use exclusively on aircraft and had a significantly higher rate of fire. Since it was designed to be used at higher altitudes where air is cooler, the AN/M2 could afford to use a thinner, lighter weight barrel. Overall, the platform weighed less thanks to thinner stamped parts and was in total about a third lighter than its M1919 relative.

    Scrounging Around

    In the Pacific, Marines were able to get their hands on the lighter AN/M2 variant by scrounging them from downed or otherwise out-of-commission aircraft. Though these machine guns were not intended for dismounted use, a couple of enterprising Marines realized that the aircraft guns were well-suited to the dense, close-quarters warfare typical of the Pacific Theatre. During the Marine assault on Bougainville, the value of a more mobile, high-firepower package became clearly apparent. It was there that a couple of AN/M2s jerry-rigged into portable weapons.

    Initially, the result was rather crude. The spade-style trigger and handle grouping was retained, the only difference being a bipod—likely from a BAR—being attached to the barrel. While this modification was helpful, it was rather ungainly and next to impossible to shoot from a non-prone position.

    Stinger

    Further modifications were done to the AN/M2, producing the final, ultimate Stinger. Few of the motley rifles were produced. They mated an AN/M2 receiver to a sawed-off M1 Garand buttstock, a BAR bipod and sights, and a custom-made trigger package. The resulting rifle was staggering in its capabilities.

    The Stinger’s rate of fire was its biggest strength but also its biggest vulnerability. Ammunition would be quickly exhausted, and the barrel was prone to overheating, as it was designed to be cooled by cool 300 mile-per-hour winds at thousands of feet in the air.

    One young Marine Corporal, Tony Stein, favored the Stinger. He would be among the first to land at Iwo Jima, where he was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions on the volcanic island’s beaches. His Medal of Honor citation reads:

    “The first man of his unit to be on station after hitting the beach in the initial assault, Corporal Stein, armed with a personally improvised aircraft-type weapon, provided rapid covering fire as the remainder of his platoon attempted to move into position…Cool and courageous under the merciless hail of exploding shells and bullets which fell on all sides, he continued to deliver the fire of his skillfully improvised weapon at a tremendous rate of speed which rapidly exhausted his ammunition.”

    Not too shabby for an improvised mish-mash of rifle parts.

    Caleb Larson is a Defense Writer with The National Interest. He holds a Master of Public Policy and covers U.S. and Russian security, European defense issues, and German politics and culture.
     



    The whole story including all the soldiers involved  will be addressed on the chow tomorrow.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,619 ✭✭✭
    armilite:  Thank you.  I might watch it.
    What's next?
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