.

Goldman, Citi See Dollar Sliding 20%

serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭


Sooner than later with Biden with the progressive Democrats coming in with huge defcits giveaways to to save their voting base from revolting again but this time around it won't be white privilege B.S.

serf

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/goldman-citi-see-dollar-sliding-2021-plunging-much-20

But if Goldman's forecast for a 6% drop in 2021 is aggressive, then Citi's prediction is outright bizarre: according to Citigroup FX strategist Calvin Tse, the dollar is likely to begin a drop of as much as 20% in 2021 should Covid-19 vaccines become widely distributed and help to revive global trade and economic growth.

Quoted by Bloomberg, Tse said that "vaccine distribution we believe will check off all of our bear market signposts, allowing the dollar to follow a similar path to that it experienced from the early to mid-2000s" when the currency started a multi-year downturn. Echoing Goldman, Citi said that the election was not ultimately the catalyst for a significant plunge, but Citigroup says the broad macroeconomic backdrop will be a bigger driver of the dollar going forward.

Citigroup expects that in addition to the impact from vaccine breakthroughs, the dollar will suffer as the Fed will remain dovish when the global economy normalizes, the rest of the world is likely to grow at a faster pace, and investors will rotate out of U.S. assets and into international assets, Bloomberg reported.

Most Wall Street strategists have been predicting for months that the U.S. election, vaccine breakthroughs and Federal Reserve policy could deal a serious blow to the currency.

Comments

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    That may make it more economically feasible to return more manufacturing to the U.S. from places like China. Guess I am more of a glass half full guy. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    The glass was full in the early 60's and now it's at 1/3 level now and I suspect it wll take a long time to fill it up again for any blue collar factory workers to find relief under A.I. factories doing the work.

    Even The Fed Chairman said it will never be the same and he should know with all the funny money they give away for free and give the bill to the U.S. citizens while Corporations get huge tax cuts for the privilege to stay here and provide what little jobs they create that pays decent wages. Most profits goes straight to the corporate elites and foreign stock holders.

    serf

  • mac10mac10 Member Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭

    china happy now jobs stay there and more on the way

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    Or perhaps the profits go to the 10s of millions of people with 401K plans. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    China just

    China just signed a free trade deal for South Asia which has created one of 5 trade blocks the elites wrote about and Now Canada is talking about a reset for us here in This trade block. The Exchange rates are soon to get modified and The US dollar is going to lose it reserve currency status soon,just watch Old Joe sell us out soon.

    It may not be the Amerio but it will be the same ledger game. BIS exchange bank in Switzerland has the big plan no doubt!

    serf

    Justin Trudeau Canada Prime Minister Talk About The Great Reset and 2030 Agenda


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C8Juj82j5Y

  • Nanuq907Nanuq907 Member Posts: 533 ✭✭✭
    edited November 16

    I watched an original episode of Hawaii Five-O and they were trying to nab a guy smuggling in small gold bars. He was negotiating with a buyer... "Fifty bucks and ounce. She: I'll give you thirty-five".

    Holy smokes. Wish I'd bought about 1,000 lbs of the stuff back then. Cha-chinnngggggg.

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭


    Don't gas light the subject,how much did those 401ks drop in 2007-2010? The Trillons in debt relief goes to the big players not the little ones here 2020! Bail out all the useless debt vehicles and QE to infinity and beyond. The stock market is nothing but a big bubble of sooth-Sayers.

    serf

    https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/517772-economic-inequality-costs-the-average-working-person-42000-annually

    A groundbreaking new study from the RAND Corporation calculates how much more money people in our country would earn if economic growth in the United States from 1975-2018 had been shared equally instead of dramatically shifted to those with the highest incomes. The total amount of money shifted from 90 percent of wage earners to the highest 10 percent was $47 trillion from 1975 through 2018. It was $2.5 trillion in 2018 alone. Is it any wonder that so many Americans, regardless of their race, gender, education level, or where they live, feel like it’s a struggle to provide financial stability to their families?

    How much of a raise would people get if that $47 trillion had been distributed evenly along with the nation’s economic growth? The average lower-income full-time worker (25th percentile), who now takes home $33,000, would be paid $61,000 in 2018 dollars (that’s applicable for all these numbers). Not only would the typical middle-income worker get a boost from $50,000 to $92,000, but an upper-middle-class working person’s (75th percentile) income would go from $81,000 to $126,000

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    Now you are preaching socialism? The poor downtrodden worker not sharing equally with the evil corporations and the elite who run them. Oh the horror that some rise to the top and leave the less able behind. Competitive capitalism isn't kind but at least all have a chance to rise to their level of competence. Take out the rewards and treat everyone equally monetarily and there will be no incentive for creativity or innovation. Now those left behind are either on the government money train or haven't the ability to succeed. I know lets just tax the heck out of those high salaries and profits and give it to those downtrodden. Never mind that you will cause prices on everything to go up. Or perhaps kill the stock market and ruin millions of 401K plans that most count on for retirement. Or create even more government dependents when they find out they don't have to work. Sounds like a "GREAT" plan to me. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    We need a balance where the government cannot devalue our money Bob. Protect the little guy from having the elites debase our money we saved after working our whole life. Inflation with negative interest rates with no jobs is what happen to the Weimar Rebublic and we know how that went.

    The USA government is doing a repeat and it's not going to be pretty. You seem to not to understand how they play the game or you do and it working for you and you fear the leveling of the playing field. It's not socialism I preach it's theft by central banks and elities who control the system in placed.

    serf

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-wall-street-ponzi-scheme-called-fractional-reserve-banking/11600

    If a landlord had rented the same house to five people at one time and pocketed the money, he would quickly have been jailed for fraud. But the bankers had devised a system in which they traded, not things of value, but paper receipts for them. It was called “fractional reserve” lending because the gold held in reserve was a mere fraction of the banknotes it supported. The scheme worked as long as only a few people came for their gold at one time; but investors would periodically get suspicious and all demand their gold back at once. There would then be a run on the bank and it would have to close its doors. This cycle of booms and busts went on throughout the nineteenth century, culminating in a particularly bad bank panic in 1907. The public became convinced that the country needed a central banking system to stop future panics, overcoming strong congressional opposition to any bill allowing the nation’s money to be issued by a private central bank controlled by Wall Street. The Federal Reserve Act creating such a “bankers’ bank” was passed in 1913. Robert Owens, a co-author of the Act, later testified before Congress that the banking industry had conspired to create a series of financial panics in order to rouse the people to demand “reforms” that served the interests of the financiers.

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting but incomplete in their reasoning for banks not having the cash or gold on hand to cover all deposits. No bank has all deposits covered with cash or gold. To make money on their deposits money is loaned or invested to make more money to cover interest and operating costs. The bank may have the assets to cover all deposits but it doesn't mean those assets are immediately liquid. A central banking system can cover these runs with a loan to keep the bank solvent until they can divest themselves of their investments.

    Inflation causes high interest rates like the mortgage rates of 17-18% in the early 1980s. Unfortunately we never learn from the past. The politicians will either increase the money supply and cause negative interest or decrease it and cause inflationary interest rates. This is why I was not a fan of stimulus checks for all. For the worker directly impacted perhaps, but not the retirees or those that kept working. Now they want to do it again and I think it is a mistake. So I guess we are on the same page but are interpreting it differently. I look at it as having a central bank is good insurance and you see it as tool of the "elite".

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭


    It's like a Temple (Federal Reserve) with 7 priests but they use the liquidity of so called fiat money backed by nothing but faith of the people who are forced to use it to trade with and be taxed by governments with it who delegate the power to elites who owns it's stock.

    It's no different than a religion with an earthly pay out for the wise ones. They also hoard gold and call it an archaic relic of the past yet posses vast amounts of it but will not allow it to circulate it freely because others would hoard it and drain their reserves because it finite and holds value better that fake promise notes that are infinite in some computer program ready to produce debt out of nothing with congresses approval.

    serf

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    So we come back to worthless fiat currency. All mediums of wealth are based on faith and desire to possess and accumulate said medium. Why does gold have value? Why do diamonds have value? They are actually both relatively common materials and other than some industrial uses have very little practical value. The only reason a lot of things have value is that they are agreed upon as a medium of exchange, whether gold, banknotes, or electronic like bitcoin. If citizens understand that currency is just a medium of exchange to change their labor into goods and services then all is good. Tomorrow someone could say ostrich feathers are the new medium of exchange and if everyone accepted that, suddenly we would have a feather based economy. Gold is only worth something because we have been fooled into thinking it has value and now it becomes a medium of exchange because people desire to own some. The companies that sell gold prey upon that desire and exchange it for that fiat currency that so worries you. Why would they do that? Why not keep the gold and watch its value increase? I think it strange all the television commercials and print ads warning about the dollar becoming useless and yet the advertiser will exchange their gold for it. Kind of counterintuitive or blatantly fraudulent on their part I think. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    You left out the tulips their Bob but digits are infinite and gold is finite and there is where the rubber meets the road. There is nothing common about gold if it was then it would not be mined for more. Now when they harvest asteroids or mine the moon then gold may lose it's luster but the greenback is about to lose it luster very soon now.

    serf

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    The U.S. gross national income is around 21 trillion dollars as of 2019. The total gold that has been mined since day 1 has been estimated to be around 11 trillion dollars at todays prices and this is spread across the the entire globe. So yes it is a relatively common mineral and certainly no where near the rarest. How do you propose to back currency with it if in the entire history of mining only a little more than half of this countries yearly payroll has been mined? Should the government confiscate everyones gold and the inflate it 1000% so they have enough to back our currency? If you allow the exchange of currency for government gold pretty soon the government has none and then what is backing the currency? And how do you spend gold? At 60 bucks a gram, at todays prices, it is kind of hard to buy a happy meal for the kids at McDonalds. So in summary - we don't have enough to back our economy, It is hard to spend on its own for everyday things, to make it work the government would have to greatly increase its value and get the rest of the world to do the same, oh and one more thing will be the destruction of the electronics industry because the couldn't afford to use it in your everyday products. Sure not looking very viable to me. It is a shame we have raised our standard of living so far that we have outstripped the primitive use of gold as the basis for our economy. I guess if we all settled for a lot less we might drive our economy so far in the hole we would then have enough gold to back it. Bob

  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,589 ✭✭✭✭

    Lear Capital has had TV ads enticing people to buy gold and silver because the price will go up.


    And if you buy now, you can get a whole bunch more for FREE!


    Hummmm ..... if the price is going to go up, why would they sell what they have and give some away for free?


    Has the smell of a con game.

    LOL

    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭
  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    Yeah gold is a big con I think you fellows are in for a big surprise.Gold can be liquidated down at the pawn shop if needed. Keep preaching and let Biden raise the the debt ceiling another 7 trillion dollars and stimulate the economy.The stock market should hyper-inflate some more with that funny money that holds no value.

    If The Feds can sell some more F-35's and then start another war who knows people may run back to the safe haven and invest in federal ponzi scheme again.

    serf

    https://www.investors.com/research/f35-fighter/

    The F-35's acquisition price tag is $400 billion, making it the most expensive Pentagon program ever. The current unit price of an F-35A is now $89.2 million and Lockheed predicts this price will fall to $80 million by 2020. The F-35B variant is $115.5 million and the F-35C is $107.7 million. But as production ramps up, the unit price will drop further.

    And after acquisition, the estimate for operating and maintaining the total fleet over the course of its service life is a whopping $1.45 trillion. The F-35A variant costs $44,000 per hour to fly vs. $19,000 per hour for the legacy F-16 fighter, according to Air Force data cited by the Washington Post.

    Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey, and the U.K. partnered with the U.S. on the jet's development and plan to buy it as well. Japan, Israel and South Korea are also buying the jet, while Belgium and Finland are considering purchases.

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    What will you liquidate the gold for at the local pawn shop? Some more of those worthless dollars? Since dealers make money on both the buying and selling of gold how much do you lose per transaction? If the dollar crashes how will you use your gold as a medium of exchange? Perhaps a deposit somewhere that will keep track of fractional electronic expenditures but since gold is basically a commodity how do you keep track of fluctuations in value daily? How much would this service of fractional spending charge? If we were on a gold standard and all of our foreign debt was called due, how would we pay it if they demanded gold. That would empty our reserves and we would have nothing left to back currency.


    Sorry I think the gold colored horse has left the barn and isn't coming back. That's o.k. because while nice to have, horses have been replaced as a necessary thing to have by more modern technology. Bob

  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,589 ✭✭✭✭

    Selling gold at a pawn shop? Really ....


    The price paid is based on what they can sell it for to a gold WHOLESALER ... and they pay far below 'spot price.'


    LOL

    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    Three letters here explains it! (IRS) which is everywhere soon with digital cash concept? 😎

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    Bob says

    Sorry I think the gold colored horse has left the barn and isn't coming back. That's o.k. because while nice to have, horses have been replaced as a necessary thing to have by more modern technology. Bob

    Yeah that's why all those central banks stable all those gold bars and call then Assets? Because it's a reserve currency ??

    serf

    The IMF classifies gold holdings as part of a nation's foreign currency reserves. Gold is a hybrid as it is part commodity and part currency. In its role as a reserve asset, gold continues to retain its position as the world's oldest means of exchange

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    I thought we were talking about dollars? You are talking about assets. Banks and countries have a lot of assets and yes gold is a part of their holdings. However their economies are not based on gold but on a diverse portfolio. Gold is just one means of exchange. If our dollar was gold backed it wouldn't take long to exhaust this countries supply. If your currency is backed by a commodity you must surrender that commodity upon presentation of the currency. What happens then, when the country has a stockpile of currency returned by citizens or other countries and no gold reserves left to back that currency up? Bob

  • us55840us55840 Member Posts: 31,589 ✭✭✭✭

    What happens then, when the country has a stockpile of currency returned by citizens or other countries and no gold reserves left to back that currency up? Bob


    That is why the US government went OFF the gold standard years ago ... now the dollars are backed by the full faith in the government ......... for whatever that means other than they can print to their hearts desire. As a side note, the "money" to the government is mostly a bunch of numbers in a computer.......same as the national debt.


    LOL

    "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭

    What is currency ? I have always thought that was money? Of course you can dance around the bush again and tell me it's just a commodity. Now gold dollars have a specific weight and purity of gold metal for it domination and has intrinsic value while the paper Federal Reserve dollar has none of that but paper and ink with a destination of what it is worth which is nothing but paper and ink bond issued from debt.

    serf

    https://www.commoditytrademantra.com/forex-currency-trading/reasons-why-debt-based-paper-currency-is-not-money/

    Now that we’ve defined what money is, let me further define what money is not: debt. All US dollars, which is to say Federal Reserve Notes, are debt. They are neither redeemable for anything by their issuer, nor is there a limit on how many can be created. They represent only a vague claim against the “good faith and credit” of the United States government, which is to say the government’s ability to extract taxes from its subjects. But Uncle Sam has shown himself to be remarkably lacking in good faith and is currently embarked on a course to destroy his credit.

    Paper money is an excellent means for governments to tax people indirectly, surreptitiously, through inflation. That’s one reason central bankers love paper money, but also, phony economic theories, like those of John Maynard Keynes, hold that the government not only can but should meddle with the economy, and the ability to print paper money gives them a means to do that.

    In today’s world, not only do people around the world take it for granted that paper is money, but that it should be so.

    But it’s all nonsense. After the current system collapses, as every paper money system in the past has collapsed, some form of money will have to replace it, and it’s almost certainly going to be gold

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    You still have not told me where all the gold will come from. Remember U.S. income over 21 trillion and The world has only mined 11 trillion throughout history. I realize we would not need anywhere near that 21 trillion in income in circulation all at one time but if the dollar collapses then all the rest of the worlds currencies will do the same. Spread that 11 trillion that has been mined across all the worlds economies and it will disappear quickly. The population of the world is just to big for the available gold reserves to cover. You could, I guess, inflate the value of gold by 10 or 20 times but how do you keep other inflation in check if you do that? What about gold that individuals and banks own now? Will it be confiscated or will you be creating more wealthy people while you bankrupt others? Again I ask, exactly how would you make gold work as a currency? Give me a practical plan and not wishful thinking. Also don't give me links to any sales pitch where they want me to invest my soon to be worthless dollars for their gold. I still say it is strange that the goal of gold sellers is to get rid of their gold by exchanging it for worthless paper money. The more hysteria they generate, the more dollars they can get for their commodity. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭
    edited November 18

    It's was foretold about central banks and Let Andrew Jackson be your guide. We are in a depression now and it's not going to be pretty. Once people lose faith in our money system like after1929 when Roosevelt confiscated all the gold and only a war brought the economy back.

    And then LBJ stole all the silver in 1964 to finance the Vietnam war and left nothing for the common man. Then Nixon finally ended it in 1971for the Arabs where getting all the gold out of Fort Knox. Now the petro dollar has run it's course it's nothing but a huge ponzi scheme for the elites.

    It's time to devalue it and have a digital dollar value based on production of good and services instead of a reserve currency that imports inflation to all with Funny money. Tax anything that moves in the currency and track everything with the NWO reset and The U,N. agenda 2030 with Artificial Intelligence.

    I imagine they will pegged the digitally dollar to a basket of currencies with gold & silver reserves world wide to keep an entity from making another monopoly of control of wealth & trading with a fractional banking system which is manipulated by A corrupt government LIKE IT IS NOW. This is what is coming it's not what I want and never will be. A.I. is the new governor just watch.

    serf

  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 62,977 ✭✭✭✭

    Nonsense to everything. Alcohol and Ammo will be the only value when the big depression hits again.

  • BobJudyBobJudy Member Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭✭

    It is amazing how you interpret history. Similar to todays youth on the left. The depression started in 1929 and the change over from the gold standard did not happen until 1933. If anything by changing over it made attempts to alleviate the depression with progams like the WPA easier to finance for the government. It also helped to finance war production when WW2 came along. We should learn from history and not pick and choose facts to support an agenda. A quick internet search shows the ones claiming the same facts that you do seem to be in the precious metals business. Must just be a coincidence. I would hate to think you are falling for their advertising hook, line and sinker. Perhaps you should do some economics research and try sources that don't stand to profit from making you panic. Bob

  • serfserf Member Posts: 7,514 ✭✭✭


    Some early founding fathers where against a central bank in The USA so you can't consider it's the youth and on the left. The elites by uncoupling our coins and dollars from precious metals can manipulate and increase the NUMBER of so called certificates by the trillions with a corrupt Congress and steal the future from our youth with a staggering bill that will destroy their future.

    That incompetent Chairman of The Federal Reserve is nothing but a thief and soon congress will join him for another round of SEVEN trillion given to The Rich and poor and destroy the middle class savings with negative interest rates with stagflation. It's a travesty under rule of law in my opinion. Another reason to not trust this republic being with sound government as their guide and are deluded and being very foolish.

    serf

Sign In or Register to comment.