"My rifle doesn't like that ammo" ??
jb4lcm
Member Posts: 119 ✭✭
I keep hearing the saying that I need to find the ammo that the rifles "likes". Apparently, my rifle should be named "Mikey" because it doesn't seem to like anything.
I have a new Ruger American "go-wild camo" 30-06. I have tried SIX different rounds and I am not able to get better than 6" groups at 100 yards. I have had another shooter shoot the same gun/rounds to see if it is me. I have alternated between the Ruger and my Remington 700 .223 in 3 round groups letting each gun cool between shots to see if my bags, weather, trigger pull, etc, are contributing to the problem but I am getting 1.5" groups with the .223 so I'm happy with the idea that there is something other than myself in this result.
Approx 300 rounds have been shot thru it since purchasing it new in October.
WHAT is the science behind finding the ammo it "likes"?
Here's the list of ammo used thus far:
Winchester- Power point 180 gr & Extreme point 150 gr
PPU - SP 150
Federal- Fusion 150gr & Power Shok 150gr
Wolf - 168 gr FMJ Steel (gets stuck in chamber)
I have noticed that the very END of the stock is VERY close to the barrel. It MIGHT be touching. Ruger is sending me a new stock free of charge as it's only 3 months old. WHAT influence could this have? These plastic stocks are pretty soft and move/bend easily.
Comments
Take a piece of paper and see if it clears the stock and barrel from the muzzle to the action. Paper is .005 thick Wrap the paper in a U and go under barrel to action
Right side and left side of the stock:
Take the stock off the action and take a dremel and clean out that area so barrel does not hit the stock.
Have you checked all the other variables? Things like action screws being tight, scope base and rings tight, switching scope to check if that is the problem, is the barrel crown damaged? Are your 6" groups round or strung vertically or horizontally in a line? This lack of accuracy could be due to lots of things, ammo being only one variable. Bob
have you given it a thorough cleaning and i do mean a thorough cleaning like long range competition shooters do. also inspect the muzzle with a magnifying glass for any damage. even a rifle with imperfect bedding should shoot better than what you describe.
The action screws get torqued inch pounds in the manual. Cured mine.
60 to 80 inch pounds.
Hard to imagine that ammo is the problem given the fact that multiple kinds have been tried. Has to be a problem with the barrel, stock or sights. Finding a load that the gun "likes" comes after the other variables have been addressed.
What kind of mounts and glass are you using? Cheap mounts and glass can make even the best rifle shoot like poop.
It sure sounds like it is the gun, not the ammo. Something is moving around or is inconsistent. The first thing to check is to make sure all the screws are good and tight, action screws, scope and base screws. Then check the muzzle to see if there is a ding or a defect of some sort there. We used to free-float barrels and glass bed actions to improve accuracy, but these days the manufacturers do a pretty good job.
The 223 has very little recoil compared to the '06. Are you flinching when you are pulling the trigger on the '06??
Leupold VX-5HD
I do not know the brand of mount. It was acquired and installed by my gunsmith. It came loose and I remounted. NO brand stamped into the mounts. The factory mounted picatinny base came loose and I remounted - using locktite blue even though Ruger does not recommend it. However, the T10 (yes T-TEN) screws holding the base onto the gun has been a struggle getting torqued properly as EVERY T10 drive has twisted and BROKEN before I get to 60 in/lb. I have checked the scope rings and base and they are tight but I do not believe they are 60 in/lb on the base and 28 on the rings. But I DID use a caliper to measure if anything moved and it has not.
I removed the scope today and the base, checked the 2 action screws and they are tight but I will remove the receiver anyway and grind off the area of the stock where it touches the barrel.
NOTE - it came with a stock muzzle brake. Are these suspect?
dreher ... As for flinching, well, I just close my eyes and brace for impact!
I'm using the "surprise me" method on trigger squeeze so while I am not perfect on that, most pulls are pretty much the same.
Here's my results at 100 yards last time out:
30-06 vrs .223
I haven't heard of any problems with their muzzle brake. Check it and see if there is any evidence of it not being concentric with the bore. There should be no copper residue on the brake at the muzzle. If there is then the brake is offset from the bore causing the bullet to strike it. You could always try shooting a group without the brake and see if the groups improve.
Try another scope that you know works. Perhaps the one from your 223. I know that is a pain but will be a lot cheaper than shooting up a lot more ammo at today's prices. Good luck . Bob
2 cents, it is not the ammo, either equipment or operator error.
To me, it looks like you're using your couch cushions to rest your gun on. Go buy some sand bags meant for elementary bench shooting. And let your shoulder heal for a week or so. I go to a PA game commission shooting range near me fairly often. It gets busy there before deer season. It's common to see guys with pillows or rolled up jackets to rest their guns on and a pile of empty brass on the ground and a noticeable flinch and a target with a pie-sized group.
notnow ... nope - using a Champion sand bag up front and a Caldwell sand bag aft. Keeping my body contact as little as possible to avoid heartbeat influence and a light trigger hand as well.
I'll consider switching scopes, but it's difficult to think it's my late model Leupold. The other one is OLD - but damn accurate: Bausch & Lomb 3000 3x9x50.
a nick to the muzzle crown is the problem I once had that caused this
I would switch scopes with another rifle and see what happens. My .308 Ruger American shoots amazingly well 173 gr cast bullets, 125Gr TNT's, 150 SMK's 155 Gr Palama's and 168 SMK's. It is accurate with them all.
All good comments from the forum..
I had a customer come in with a Ruger American in .223 that he could not get to shoot well. I know him to be an excellent shot, so I knew it wasn't him. Everything checked out good- crown, screws, mounts and scope. He said it "feels" like this gun wants to shoot, but it just wont.
As a final check, we decided to go ahead and glass bed the receiver, and cut some more out of the barrel channel, which cured his problem. While a well built rifle, I feel the stock is a little on the weak side. His forearm would flex under hand pressure, and I think the honeycombed plastic in the forearm lends to flexing, especially on the bench with the load on the forearm. Also, the dual V-block bedding is not connected to each other, with very thin stock parts in between. High production composite stocks will not fit every barreled action identically.
These are just my .02 opinions, and I'm sure many will disagree. Many people have very accurate Ruger Americans, and some have had problems like you are illustrating. All you can do is take the individual rifle, and eliminate all the bugs.
Good shooting..
As 8x57 mentioned above, I think it could be a stock issue. An easy thing to play with is the tension of the front action screw. Try tightening it, so that it pulls the action down into the bedding block and see if that makes a difference.
"Keeping my body contact as little as possible to avoid heartbeat influence and a light trigger hand as well."
IMHO, that answers the question. Considering the recoil of a 30/06, a solid, consistent recoil attenuation is a must. Allowing the rifle to jump erratically is bound to cause all sorts of accuracy issues.
I have shot a few thousand .223 Wolf Steel cased ammo through AR's and a Savage bolt gun. I have had exactly one failure to fire accuracy was fine. YMMV
Just a few more thoughts. Double triple check the mounting base is tight and there is no scope movement. It has bit me more than once on rifles.
If all that seems OK shoot a couple of targets with your ammo, marking each target with the distance and ammo used. Contact Ruger Customer Service, explain the issue and ask them to send a shipping label to return it for repair, I hope you kept the purchase receipt.
My bet is that Ruger will pay shipping both ways and fix it for you if you find the scope is in good shape..
Its the rifle or the scope/mounts.
Thanks everyone for the input. I'll report back once I have thoroughly cleaned and remounted everything, tighten to specs (as best I can find) and I will try one more ammo - a Garand round and see what happens with the lighter load. I will also learn to hold this rifle better to try and contain the recoil more.
You might want to get better mounts. Spend the money. As long as your changing the scope.
notnow .... I installed Leupold backcountry cross slot rings (Aluminum) this evening. I was in the process of tightening the top rings over the scope - in the cris-cross manner - when ONE of the screws stripped out the hole at 18 in/lb!
I'm am SOOOOooooooo done with this * tonight .... 😡
What I should have mentioned was not to cross brands of base and rings. IOW, Leopold base then Leopold rings. I had the kind of problem that can create. I've mounted a scope recently and used Talley mounts that were two piece front and rear but integral base and rings. They're working good so far in my opinion.
It seems to me that you have an issue with hardware, or shooter error. Is the 6 inch group consistent? I mean, does it get worse than 6 inches? Do they all miss up/down or left/right? I believe that 1st you should let someone else shoot it and compare results. Yes everyone shoots different, but if someone replicates the same 6 inch group, then look at the gun. If they shoot 2 inch groups, then look at your form. If they can't shoot tighter than 6 inches, then take it to a different gunsmith. Most likely is a problem with the scope or mounts. You may even have an issue with the threads in the gun?! Possible stripped them the 1st time or 5th time a mount was added. Keep us updated, and good luck!
I will also 2md the idea that it needs a GOOD cleaning. Check for copper fouling, with copper cleaner. Has the accuracy problem been since day one?!
Mike55 .... I had another guy shoot it same day. We alternated he'd shoot then I'd shoot. Similar frustrating grouping.
The gun got shipped back to Ruger. It arrived there on the 3rd. We'll see what they say.
Yes - I did the copper test then cleaned the gun with a brush and Hoppes 9. I did it 4 times - green all 4 times. Very odd to have THAT much copper in a gun that has been cleaned 2 times before and a TOTAL of 320 rounds put through it.
So the OTHER comment I have heard about rifles "well, when you get a GOOD one ...." so I guess it'* or miss when buying a rifle? No pun intended ... sort of. I don't want to spend the money on a MOA Certified rifle.
Sounds like a rough bore from the factory. Poor accuracy and hard to keep clean.
Most custom barrels are easy to keep un-fouled. Smooth as a babies behind.
When you get your rifle back from Ruger will you please post what they said about your rifle and what they did to cure the problem?? Also let us know the results of your first range session.
I think we would all like to know what was going on to have that kind of accuracy problem. Thanks!
I received the gun back from Ruger - they installed a new stock. It fits well and seems to have a much closer tolerance around the barrel. The original stock had a LOT of extra room between the barrel and stock. The new stock has like 1/2 the gap as the original. I slid a dollar bill down the barrel and it floats well. They also test fired it at 50yds and sent a dopy of the results - 3 rds within 2".
Remounted the scope and back out to the range. Sighted in at 100 yards, let it cool, then first 3-rd grouping was with federal 165gr - all within 3". I was STOKED to say the least. YOU may not be impressed with that result - but I am.
Switched to 150FMJ garand rds and it was all over the place. Back to Federal and back to tight groups.
Pushed it out to 200 yards and lobbed 4 Federal into a 6" target. Tried 3 rds of Garand and could not find paper. Back to Federal and back in the 6" ring.
My gun does not like 150gr Garand rounds.
I would try some other loads with it especially the 180 gr for a 30/06
A 3 round group that patterns 2" at 50 yards would be a non starter for me.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
+1
Try a different scope, even if you have to borrow it. 6" indicates a severe problem. Something is LOOSE, even if it is the erector tube inside the scope.
It patterns 2 inches at 50 yards. At 200 doing 6" is expected.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
NOT for any rifle in my safes!!. If it doesn't hold 1/2-.2/3moa at 200yds, it is for sale or at the gunsmith. Todays manufacturing, ammunition, and optics quality is far superior to that performance, and even though Ruger isn't exactly benchrest qualified, I have several and all will hold far under those groups.
Still say something is loose or broken. Even late model scopes can fail. When in doubt, try another scope. I keep an old bushnell 6-18X laying around just for this purpose. When something goes haywire or just won't perform, I swap scopes to see the difference.
As far as the barrel channel, try inserting varying thicknesses of paper under the barrel at the front of the stock, and see if it tightens up. If so, you have a whippy barrel that will require a forward pressure point. Weatherby used to be famous for that.
I think you missed his post saying that after rework the FACTORY supplied him with his rifle back and a target showing a 2" group at 50 yards.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain