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Ammunition
RDmotr
Member Posts: 1 ✭
7.65x54 vrs7.65x53
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7.65x54 wins by 1 m/m !
The x54 is the fat Russian rimmed cartridge while the x53 is a "modern" looking rimless cartridge most commonly associated with the Argentine Mausers. Both are capable of .308 Winchester performance. While the x53 is considered obsolete, the x54 is still in limited use in the Russian military. The x53 uses .311/.312 bullets. The x54 has rather loose specs and may use .308 or .311 diameter bullets depending on bore size. (I use .308" bullets in mine.) Both cartridges date their origins to the 1880's era.
The current Russian machine gun and DMR cartridge is 7.62 X 54. The 7.65 X 53 is listed in COW. As being a military rifle cartridge dating to 1889. Used by many countries for their rifles and machine guns until the 1950's. Nothing listed in COW for the 7.65 X 54?
the 53 cases can be easily made from 30-06 brass.
The better designation for the Russian service cartridge, which dates from 1891 or so, might be 7.62X54R (the R showing a Rimmed design)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9753mmR
Gents,
There's no "R" or "7.62" seen in the title - the OP is asking about the Argentine, former Belgian & Turkish 7.65 x 54 Mauser cartridge here.
RD - it is sometimes seen labeled as both "7.65 x 53.5mm", & "7.65 x 53mm":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.65%C3%9753mm_Mauser
There is no difference, same cartridge. The case length is actually 53.6mm, the old joke was the Belgians had better micrometers. There is a 7.65x53mm Rimmed that's semi popular in Europe for falling block, and break actions.
Two theories where the "x54" came from. Originally developed for the 1889 Belgian Mauser, it had a heavy round nose .311 bullet, About 1910, they changed to a .313 spitzer. "Allegedly", some Belgian catalogs had it listed as a x54mm.
Theory two is more likely. When Argentine Model 1891'* the US market, so did the first lots of milsurp ammo. The next round of ammo imported was Argy FS manufactured, with the boxes marked "x54". Personally, those is the only boxes I've ever seen marked 7.65x54.
Back in 1990, Rifle #132 magazine ran an article on "A forgotten Classic...7.65x53 Mauser" by Robert Gaulden. It is an interesting and enjoyable article to read describing what a great leap in technological development this cartridge represented and how it is still a masterpiece today (in 1990 at 101 years of age).
In the article, Gaulden mentions running into the headspace problem with the "SF" 81 ammo in his 1909 Argentine rifles and concludes that there must have been two different chamberings for the 1909's and that his were chambered for the 7.65x53 and not the 7.65x54.
A few months later, in Rifle #135 (Nov-Dec 1990) a letter to the editor was posted which should prove definitive on the issue.
Under the heading "7.65 Mauser Update", Capt. Luis A. Garcia Bourimborde who was at that time the Argentine Defense Attaché in Tokyo, who describes himself as an Ordnance Officer, states that the only designation for military ammo that was in use during the time all the rifles were manufactured was 7.65 Mauser, with no case length designation attached, and so all rifles were made to one chamber standard, within tolerances, whether 1891, 1909 or 1935 contract. The case length denomination didn't enter into the picture until the 1950's or 60's when NATO started so designating their ammo (7.62x51), and in the case of Argentina, they simply measured their case length and applied a two digit approximation by rounding up.
Bourimborde goes on to state that he is of the opinion that the "SF" 81 ammo is likely out of spec. which he had also previously found when inspecting prior lots of Argentine manufactured ammo, but never with the old DWM, FN, HP nor Rem-UMC. He also states, "I can tell you for sure there were never two different 7.65 cartridges, only different denominations or headstamps". He also further states "Any 1891, 1909 or 1935 Argentine Mauser is safe with any military ammunition you can close the bolt on, no matter what effort is needed".
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"In the article, Gaulden mentions running into the headspace problem with the "SF" 81 ammo in his 1909 Argentine rifles and concludes that there must have been two different chamberings for the 1909's and that his were chambered for the 7.65x53 and not the 7.65x54."
I've never checked this myself, because I never had the problem. Someone apparently had the time to measure case length on several varieties of 7.65 ammo, and chamber lengths in his 1891's and 1906's. The 91's had an average longer chamber, and didn't experience the hard to close bolt that the 1906's did with the SF ammo. So maybe the Belgians did have better micrometers.😀