In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
REMINGTON 700 VLS .223 .... will it take 5.56?
jb4lcm
Member Posts: 119 ✭✭
My bolt action 700 has only .223 stamped into the barrel, but it is a heavy barrel. I have been told be several dun dealers that unless the barrel is stamped with .223 & 5.56 - DO NOT fire 5.56 ammo in the rifle.
Ok ... so isn't that more for semi-auto than a bolt action with heavy barrel?
Obviously, my question is - is it safe to shoot 5.56?
Aaaaaaaand GO!
Comments
Here is the Hornady guidelines for this;
What is the difference between 5.56 NATO and 223 Rem ammunition? - Hornady Law Enforcement (hornadyle.com)
I have done it and gotten away with it but don't anymore and don't recommend it. Bob
that is the most clear explanation i have read on this subject. but, what if you use 5.56 brass and reload using .223 data?
My ruger AR says 223....i never cared but then again the ruger is prone to cracking gas blocks.
Just be careful, 5.56 brass MAY be thicker than commercial .223, reducing case volume. I have never had an issue with brass fired in both a bolt gun or AR platform. For the bolt gun use .223 data and start at least .5-.7 below book max in mil spec 5.56 cases.
"For the bolt gun use .223 data and start at least .5-.7 below book max in mil spec 5.56 cases."
I load .223 to meet velocity goals and found that it took 0.5 grain of H335 less in mil spec brass to reach the same velocity as domestic commercial brass. Using mil spec brass AND CCI 41 primers required another charge reduction to hit the target velocity.
The rule is 2 goes into 5 but 5 doesn't go into 2. Too bad the same rule doesn't apply to .308 & 7.62 as that would make it easier to remember.
I'll just say that "some" 5.56 ammo is perfectly safe to shoot in .223 chambers. "Some" 5.56 may(?) be unsafe to shoot in "some" .223 chambers. To make things simple enough for a cave man, it's easier to just say "Don't shoot 5.56 ammo in .223 chambers".
There are multiple variations of 5.56 ammo. The 855 ammo fired in a short throat chamber may(?) create high pressures--use your own best judgement.
I'll agree with Mobuck. One exception is the Ruger Mini. Ruger has stated with the exception of the Target version, their mini's can shoot 5.56. If I wanted a definitive answer on the Remington, I would write to Remington and get a written answer from them.
The factory will cover their *. They will tell you not to use a .22 short in a .22 LR.
I wouldn't do it.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I completely understand pressure problems for semi-auto. It's identical to the M-1 Garand NOT using typical 30-06 and ONLY using 30-06 GARAND rounds with less powder so as not to damage the feed/recoil system.
I sent this question to Remington a while ago (2 weeks) but no reply thus far.
For now I'll just stay away from 5.56.
Interesting. Never heard that about the Garand. And back in the mid-eighties I was going through 30 to 40 pounds of powder per year. My favorite powder was 4895 with 168 gr. BTHP match bullets loaded to 50000 c.u.p. Also shot up a ton of WWII surplus ammo in our DCM club. The ammo was not mild.
Incidentally, the club rifle I used before I bought my own had a 4-digit serial number starting with 3. Man, that was a nice rifle, too.
" My favorite powder was 4895 with 168 gr. BTHP match bullets loaded to 50000 c.u.p."
It's when you get into heavier bullets, slower powders, and higher pressures that cause issues with the Garand.
Personally never owned or even shot one. I toted an M-14.
A very useful article on Fulton Armory's website:
Neal
Remington filed BK last July and sold off assets 3 months ago (Nov 2020) and are NOT answering the phone. Soooooooo ... I'm getting nowhere fast on this question.
2 gozinta 5 but 5 doesn't gozinta 2.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
If they were interchangeable then there would have not been a reason for the Wylde chamber.
A lot of commercial ARs are chambered this way for accuracy, reliability, and to use both 223 & 5.56 without worries. Bob
The 223 vs, 5.56 has been hashed and hashed for years. See BobJ's post from Hornady.
No more, no less info needed.
I would also guess "mil spec" chambers aren't as consistent as everyday hunting chambers are. Thus the longer throat to allow for more pressure and a tad bit of wear and tear. "Full Auto"?
As it has been said elsewhere, " shootem at your own risk" and your mileage may very well vary.
I am sure the manufactures will not state it is safe to shoot 5.56 in a .223 marked firearm. Trial lawyers are plentiful..
After reading the Hornady piece (really good info) I still believe the article, and everyone here, is basing their responses/opinions on an AR/semi-auto platform. The Hornady piece is really good explaining the differences - IN AN A/R, with the one exception of the throat dimensions and increased pressures - but continues to use that info to explain why the A/R will have problems.
My gun is BOLT action. Although I do understand the increased pressure of the 5.56 over .223, I still see too much A/R reasons in the explanations.
It's your rifle, if you want to try it then try it, all you have to lose is some fingers and maybe part of your face.
I just read the Hornady article, and the only AR specific information I saw was about the possible poor cycling resulting from firing .223 in a 5.56 chamber. So OP, your rifle is a BOLT action. So what? Your rifle is still held to the same SAAMI standards as any other like chambering. The pressure standards are for the ROUND, not for action type. Your choice, why the need to feed it 5.56? If you're just bound and determined to do that, have a gunsmith poke a 5.56 reamer in her hiney
Short throat plus snug chamber plus long stiff jacket bullet = higher pressures. Big diff between results of shooting M193 in a .223 chamber vs shooting M855 in same chamber.
I would think even a .223 Wylde reamer would do the trick.
Yep, that'll work too.
After re-reading the Hornady article ... I get it now. Thanks for the idea of having a gunsmith look at it to modify. I may do that.
The reason why I was looking at 5.56 was current availability over 223 and the extra stopping power. But I did just pick up 1000 rds of 223 at $16 a box/20 so I'm good for a while.
I can't imagine why you seem set on using 5.56 NATO in your hunting rifle. The ballistics and terminal performance are so similar it's not worth the headache. Furthermore, stopping power is a myth anyway, but if you really want better performance, just step up to a 30 cal.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Update on the gunsmith to modify the bbl to accept 5.56:
My gunsmith looked at me and asked "why would you want bore out the bbl to accept 5.56 to shoot both 5.56 and .223? The performance/pressure of the .223 will be shot to hell. I don't understand why they do this. shoot only 5.56 in a 5.56 chamber and shoot only .223 in a .223 chamber or you'll have inconsistency across the board."
ok. No mods.
JFC, is that not what we were all saying here??
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain