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5.56x45 Exiting US Military Service
Horse Plains Drifter
Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 39,390 ***** Forums Admin
The 5.56 NATO round is being phased out of the US military. Looks like the people who can do something about it have finally woke up and see that the 5.56x45 round does not have much bite to go along with its bark. I say good riddance to that pea slinger.
https://www.gunpowdermagazine.com/the-mk-17-scar-h-battle-rifle/
Comments
Like any caliber, each has its own limitations. The "pea slinger" is deadly when used within it's intended range. I doubt you would consider it a pea slinger if shot mid chest at 100 yards. What would help MORE than anything would be to start using hollow points. Why play by rules that we didn't sign, and why not use the deadliest available ammo? Of course a 30 cal has more potential and can retain more energy over longer distances. But a 50 cal is better than a 30 cal, etc etc.. I feel the 5.56 is well suited for MOST situations and IF combine with hollow point or soft nose ammo, then it is definitely a very capable round.
They should have went to the .270 Winchester years ago.
Well . . . as long as it is American made - and I can have one in my collection - - - -
That article reads like an ad for FN.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
In it's original design the M1 Garand was just about that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.276_Pedersen#:~:text=The%20.,would%20become%20the%20M1%20Garand.
Sing it, Brother!
A wounded soldier costs the enemy more than a dead soldier. So I have been trained to believe.
It's also about how much bulk ammo weighs. The larger the round the more it weighs, the less you can carry. I was very much surprised/impressed with how accurate the M16/5.56 was when in and qualifying on the range. 2 sec. random pop up targets out to 400 yards were easy to accomplish. (I qualified Expert.) The platform impressed the snot out of me. Would not want someone who knew how to shoot aiming in my direction with one.
I doubt the 5.56 platform will be disappearing anytime soon.
YVMD.
You will note that article cited to the Black Hawk Down fiasco where the individuals involved were shooting at close range. One gun was effective and the other was not.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The 77gr OTM has been doing pretty good
Too bad Jeff Cooper isn't around to see this.
What would really make the 5.56 effective is actually teaching the people that use it to SHOOT ! I would just cringe everytime I saw a news report coming out of Viet Nam where a bunch of GIs were in a firefight and they were mostly holding their rifles over their heads and pulling the trigger. If you don't aim, chances are pretty slim that you're going to hit anything but dirt. Being able to carry more ammo didn't make us more of a threat to the enemy. 2cents.
When is the last time you saw that overhead Spray and Pray maneuver performed XXcross? It went out with Vietnam.
What you WILL see is M4's with Optics, used in precision fire mode nowadays.
I agree with mike55. Bring back Soft Points. (How do you like me now?)
MOST states will not even allow you to hunt big game with FMJ. Just saying, there is a reason ammo companies spent millions investing in soft nose and hollow point ammo. I DO agree, not aiming is a problem no matter what you shoot(except maybe 12ga in close quarters. The soft nose/hollow point ammo causes a MASSIVE wound channel even in a "pea shooter" like 5.56! As said above, 5.56 has less weight so more ammo can be carried. Time to take the gloves off and use our BEST ammo available!!
The last time I was privliged to be on a military training facility, many years ago at this point, there was a lot of emphasis on how to handle a firearm. Not much in the way of actually shooting it to a desired point. The country kids (like myself) that already had the skill did really well, in part because the requirements had been relaxed to such an extent to "qualify" as many recruits as possible. Too many couldn't hit the wall of the outhouse if they were sitting on the toilet.
Well, HP ammo also doesn't penetrate hardened targets as well. I'd say they are using the best constructed ammo for the task.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
They are going to polymer cases soon and it's anybodies guess on what caliber is the winner for a carry rifle.
serf
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/true-velocitys-new-polymer-cased-ammunition/247607
Any infantry or special operations veteran who reads this will immediately grasp the magnitude and can appreciate the savings. For those who aren't as familiar, let me share the old saying: "Ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain." Carrying weight for miles makes the guy humping it conscious of every ounce.
Another important advantage of True Velocity's ammunition is the way it handles heat. Heat is the nemesis of every firearm. High temperatures rapidly accelerate wear by softening the material doing the work. When you combine high pressure from firing with heat, parts start breaking quickly.
A polymer case is an insulator rather than a conductor. When the cartridge fires, the case contains the heat and pressure and directs it all down the barrel. Instead of super-heating brass that then heats the chamber around it, the only heat the entire barrel sees is what's found in the bore. Heat will certainly move from the barrel around the bore back into the chamber area, but keeping the heat out initially will reduce how quickly the AR bolt heats up, thereby prolonging its life. The way this ammunition manages heat should appeal to military and high-volume shooters alike.
It killed a lot of enemy... upgrade to most likely the 6.8
If the military switches to a different caliber....I see that as a plus for us. There will be a glut of 5.56 ammo on the market. BRING IT ON.
Do you really think the current administration would release all that ammo to U.S. citizens? I'd bet it'll be sent overseas as part of an aid package and/or destroyed before we see any of it.
The problem with soft or hollow point ammo is that most militaries are now issuing body armor. It's ok for our current foes but we must not continue to prepare for the last war.
...5.56, penetrate,travel,tumble. cause damage and bleeding.
100 or 900 yards away, I don't want to get hit with the bullet fired from the 5.56X45 anywhere on my precious beautiful body.
We have to prepare for the last war, and the next war. Thats how you learn. I believe that for the average soldier, he/she would benefit from having soft/hollow point ammo. IF and when you encounter an enemy with hardened body armor, then you step up to a 30 cal with AP ammo. I am all for using the correct tool for the job, you CANNOT have a one fits all no matter which ONE you decide is the best. Why not carry HP and AP???? The only reason we dont use HP is because we want to play "fair." I like to play "I WIN"!
"Why not carry HP and AP"
Logistics.
SOCOM is going to the 6mm ARC. That is a good cartridge and I think it will serve them well. I carried a SR-25 for most of my time in OEF and I liked it. I like a 7.62 rifle but you have to carry the right tool for the job. An SR-25 would not be my 1st choice for CQB but I could make it work. When you carry a 7.62 rifle the limiting factor is ammo and weight. If you are humping the mountains that ammo gets heavy fast. 7.62 is about 7#'s per 100 rounds. I usually carried 9 mags(20 rds), one in the gun and 8 in my rack. With a M-4 I carried 13 mags(30 rds), one in the gun a 12 in my rack.
I think the 6mm ARC is a nice compromise, 27 rd mags and the ammo is not too much more heavy than 5.56. I am not a fan of the 6.8 SPC.
And O'Connor actually preferred the .280, but once he had said .270 felt he could not back down a proclaim something else even better.
I'm not a member of any military branch. I have no requirement to follow any convention relating to the type of ammunition I can use to defend myself. 75% of the ammo I intend to use is either soft point or hollow point. The other 25% is designed to address the possibility of facing aggressors wearing body armor. While the majority of this ammo is .223/5.56, there's plenty of "full power" higher caliber FMJ ammo(.30/06, .308, and 8x57) to deal with increased levels of body armor or longer ranges.
Maybe I'm being paranoid this a.m., but somehow I want to look past the story and hype. Somehow our ARs maybe won't be assault weapons anymore. Being non active military seems to put them in a different class. What say all?
When will we be able to get our hands on the new ones? Ever? I'm just feeling unintended consequences. Not trying to make this political, but looking at the timing. In the works a long time or not. Paranoia can abound.
The problem lies with the people in charge of "classifying" the AR as "assault" in the first place. ARs were NEVER assault weapons, nor "weapons of war" but they were labeled that for nefarious reasons. That will NOT change, because it helps push the overall agenda. They classify a LOT of ordinary semi auto weapons as "assault" simply because of the way they LOOK, not just the ARs, AKs, etc. You CAN get real assault weapons now, BUT you MUST do all the additional paperwork, wait months, pay the fees, and the REAL ones cost a LOT of money.
I carried an M-1 in ROTC, fired the M-14 at Advanced ROTC Summer Camp, then fired the M-16 at Signal Officer Basic Course. (Fired Expert due to hunting rabbits since I was 10)
IIRC the discussion about adopting the 5.56 was partially based on research on WWII and Korea engagement ranges. M-1 was good out to over 800 yards, but most engagements were closer to 250 so it was overkill and the 7.62 was good at that range (and NATO standard) so we switched.
Then we were looking a jungle engagements where the range was even shorter and our Asian allies had trouble handling the M-14. Ammo load was also a plus (to the think tanks) so we downsized again and started firing thousands of rounds to kill one bad guy.
Now we're back to a rifleman's fight. Bad guy sticks head up to take a shot and gets hit but the ranges are at the max for the 5.56.
Hope we get a good one!
then it will be re-imported to the US.............just like the Ruskie's and Chi'coms import ammo now.
serf, I got a few .223 polymer cased ammo samples at the Vegas shot show many years ago. I don't think it ever made it into production though - at least I've never seen it advertised..
They are saying that maybe a 7.62 polymer is in the works for small arms and the 50.cal has already gone to it according to this article,
serf
https://www.marcorsyscom.marines.mil/News/News-Article-Display/Article/2059720/marines-to-receive-new-lightweight-ammo-for-machine-gun/
Per the contract with MAC Technology, MCSC will receive a small quantity of polymer ammunition in the fourth quarter of fiscal years 2020 and 2021. Marines will assess the ammo to increase familiarity and validate the polymer rounds during an Operational Validation scheduled for the third quarter of fiscal year 2021.