what is a 30-40 Improved caliber?

Joel Murphy

I have a Mauser action gun that has been sporterized and shows 30-40 Improved, does anyone know what that is? I imagine it is a variant of the 30-40 krag but will it shoot 30-40 krag or is it something different? and if so where could I find ammo or will I have to make it?

TRAP55

30/40 Krag Ackley Improved, 30/40 Krag case blown out straight wall with a 40 degree shoulder. Not something you'll find on the ammo shelf, so it's a reloading venture only.

I've seen them chambered in single shot rifles, but never in a Mauser action. Was it a Siamese Mauser action?

navc130

"Usually (?)" a Improved chamber will safely shoot the standard cartridge it is based on. A chamber cast will show exactly what you have. There is probably good info on the internet to read up on.

As described by TRAPP55, the Ackley Improved is probably the most common. The simple Lee Loader would suffice if you are not set-up for reloading.

Joel Murphy

it was custom made by Dave Stout, I will try to attach pictures as I do not know much about it.

Ambrose

That is an interesting rifle! I agree that it is an Arisaka but the stamped trigger guard, floor plate latch, and the half-height receiver metal behind the bolt handle leads me to believe it is the type 99 (7.7x58). Some one put a lot of work into that project; they were proud of it, too, based on the barrel stamping. Arisakas started showing up in this country post WWII as "bring-backs". Given that by that time, the Krag cartridge had fallen out of favor, the .30-40 case would have been an odd choice to wildcat in a bolt action rifle. Rimmed cartridges most often do not feed well from the magazines of bolt rifles that were designed for rimless cartridges.

If it were mine, the first thing I would check is to see if the bolt face/extractor would accept the rim of the .30-40 case. Next, I would slug the bore to see if it's .308" or the origional Arisaka diameter of .312+ (It would be no surprise if that was the original barrel). I would then take the firing mechanism out of the bolt and try a .30-40 case in the chamber. Ideally, if it is, in fact .30-40 improved, you should feel some resistance in closing the bolt. A chamber cast is a good idea, too.

I would put a lot of effort into trying to put that old rifle, that someone once prized, back into service. Good luck.

Hawk Carse

An interesting pig in a poke. There is a lot going on there. Getting a rimmed cartridge to feed out of a Mauser type magazine is a challenge. I would be willing to try fire forming a Krag case with a light load or one of the no-bullet forming loads; the superior rimmed case isn't going anywhere if the chamber is right.

The last picture shows a change in surface texture and blue in the barrel breech, and what appears to be a seam. I wonder if Ol' Dave made a bushing to use a barrel with a smaller than Arisaka shank.

BobJudy

Dave Stout was a gunsmith in Missouri. Here is a link to a question about a 98 he did;

Custom 98 Mauser that fell out of the sky | Shooters Forum

You might be able to contact his son-in-law for more info on your rifle. Bob

Grunt2

Great read Bob...!!!

Joel Murphy

All,

We ran across his son in law (Mike Vatterott) and have been getting a history lesson on Dave Stout and the rifle. It is indeed a Arisaka 99 action and he sent some interesting pictures of Dave and the gun at auction in Las Vegas. We actually purchased it several years ago at an auction in Reno Nv.

hi melissa, that rifle is a Japanese arisaka type 99 rifle, both the Mauser 98’s, and the Japanese 99’s had very strong actions, that rifle you have has to be an early one, looks like one i seen in an auction out in las Vegas, where are you located?

as for ammo, you should be able to by 30-40 krag ammo, you can shoot that in the rifle, then it will be what they call fire formed to the improved chamber, then you would have to hand load for it. The 30-40 improved has the neck pushed foward about .128

i’ll look thru his ledger to see if that Rifle is listed there, some are and some not. It should shoot less than an inch at 100 yards as all his rifles did here’s a pic of that rifle in the auction i seen, and Dave back around 1985 with his horse Little Guy.

hi melissa, this is what i found on your rifle, Dave purchased the Japanese 99 rifle from a guy named John Block, from N.Y. Sept. 1, 1955, then he built it in 1973, sold it to Robert Brian Young, from Fenton, MO. it looks like the wood is Walnut, with Osage Orange grip plate, and forend piece

it was his 73rd FFL transaction, thats not that it was 73 made, i would have to go back thru and minus all the other trans action, lol, but i will at a later date. i’m curious now too.